Author Topic: Thoughts on Solaris-class  (Read 3606 times)

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Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-23 Here is a link to the page for the former Soviet aircraft mounted gun. Click on one of the pictures that provide the best view of the article. In the second paragraph, there is a link to the page to the Gast Gun for a more wordy description of the mechanism.

Railguns actually uses two 'rails' of magnetically opposite metal (in relation to each other) while what you are describing would be called a coil gun (because there is an actual coil in the barrel.)

Firearms using differing methods to load rounds (the projectile, the casing with the propellant and primer in this case) do not convert (at least in the 20th century) the kinetic energy into electrical energy (this actually loses some of it as waste) but simply directly uses it in the mechanical action of the loading system (20th century machines in some cases don't even have any electrical components as far as I am aware of mostly the early half of it.) Thus far, I have not seen any gun that is two barrels and fires in tandem as one gun (if they do, they are two different guns linked to each other except maybe the mass drivers on the Karuna-class Frigate.)

What would be even better, and this would be such a monstrous piece, would be to have it as a rotary gun (at least three barrels or more) self-powered (not just externally) using the recoil to augment the loading with the whole system and pelt the enemy with a visible stream of major-caliber artillery shells. (This would not be cheap across the board.)  :eek2:

Concluding, in any multi-barreled system, the main point is to give the barrel(s) that is/are not firing a chance to cool down more than in a single barrel system while increasing the rate of fire. (The power shunt system aboard would have been, back to blue planet, designed to or modified to meet the "do more with less" concept (actually necessity), given the demands presented.) Torpedoes would just simply be jettisoned and then power themselves out. 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 02:15:04 pm by Federal Spacefarer »

 
Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
FWIW any system to reclaim energy from the recoil of a railgun would necessarily have to reduce the kinetic energy of the slug compared to just mounting the gun hard against the hull, so you'd be better off powering the loader and whatever else directly from the main power grid.

(Incidentally UEF mass drivers are definitely coilguns, not railguns.)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 08:26:55 pm by Phantom Hoover »
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
Yup, that's another mistake by me. At least you won't get bored here with me.  :rolleyes:

I meant using a mass driver's recoil to generate energy :P. The barrel is pushing a projectile, that's action. The reaction would be the barrel attempting to make a move relative to the vessel carrying it. There could be an attempt to convert it into electricity - something like gathering energy from braking in electric cars.
I don't really see use for a complicated reload system in those weapons since there is no shell and gases to get rid of. you just put a block of metal in a barrel.
And I still insist that the UEF is using coilguns and their ROF limitations come from the heat generated by coils and their power requirements.
I think I should just back off from this discussion.

I think the Jacob's Ladder is the proper name. But I think it works thanks to ionised air - it has a lot smaller resistance compared to normal air. An electrical arc is created at the bottom of the Ladder, it ionises and warms up the air around it. Hot, ionised air is starting to fly upward, and the arc is following it. When that air goes high enough above the Ladder, the arc becomes too long and breaks up. Another arc is created at the bottom of the Ladder, repeat.
Railguns seem to be related to the direction of magnetic fields generated by the electrical current.
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Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
FWIW any system to reclaim energy from the recoil of a railgun would necessarily have to reduce the kinetic energy of the slug compared to just mounting the gun hard against the hull, so you'd be better off powering the loader and whatever else directly from the main power grid.

Newton's Third Law of Motion "For every action, there is an equal yet opposite reaction." This is why jet propulsion works. This is also why, even with a fixed barrel, there is recoil. This is also why I said the system has to absorb it somehow.

Now I know what firing method the UEF uses in there guns. Thank you. This was obscure for me previously.

I think I should just back off from this discussion.

Sorry for making it seem like a hostile topic. I did not mean to do so.

Many forms of absorbing energy do generate heat. I suggest a compound system of absorbing the recoil (primarily because in my sci fi, there is a lot more kick in any of the weapons when firing.) Part of the system is concerned about using the energy to load the next round, while the remainder attempts to minimize generation of waste heat that could be used to absorb the recoil, in conjunction with the dedicated system doing this.

 
Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
You misunderstand basic physics if you think you can absorb energy from a railgun without losing kinetic energy. Since the projectile is being accelerated using magnetic induction there is no longitudinal pushback. The only force applied is to the point where the electrical circuit is closed off.
Think of railguns more like magnetic slingshots and you'll understand why you can't use the recoil.
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Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion Here is a link to the physics of what we are talking about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun Here is the link to the wikipedia article and go down to the "Materials used" paragraph for comparison.

https://youtu.be/wa_vuX5_oAk The video evidence of the Third Law of Motion and the information above.

I will be honest, I had questions about the physics after what you said. Above are my researched examples.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
The fire rate of any of the UEF gauss rifles and mass drivers is governed more by the time it takes to build up a firing charge rather than the time it takes to load a projectile into the gun.
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Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
Well, then I guess I was bringing too much of my sci fi (concerning railguns) into Blue Planet.  :banghead:

Alright, then the priority of weapons design is not so much "how can I load the next round as quickly as required" but instead "how can I make the charging system as efficient, power wise, as possible while still having massive application of force." Since it takes longer to charge the weapon then to load it, that would rewrite my approach in the technical lore. I would still make the Toutatis mass driver as unique as possible then what it is derived from (the Narayana mass driver by appearance) so it would be more interesting to potentially watch in action.

 
Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
Well, of course it will push back, that was never the question. The problem is that unlike gunpowder the majority of the opposing force acts on the sides of the rails rather than directly pushing back. The pushback you see there is simply due to air pressure after an extremely fast projectile "pushes" it out of the way and it rushes back in. It's not nearly strong enough to practically use for anything compared to a standard cannon of the same size.
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Offline The E

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Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
I would still make the Toutatis mass driver as unique as possible then what it is derived from (the Narayana mass driver by appearance) so it would be more interesting to potentially watch in action.

But that is quite literally not the point! Calder was able to modiy the Big T with a bunch of huge guns because those gun assemblies were stockpiled parts that were originally intended to go on a Narayana somewhere. See, it would be nice if there was a special gun mod for the Solaris, custom built to exacting specifications and fitting perfectly, but there's just not enough time to make that happen within the timeframe of War in Heaven. Calder has to make do with what's available, and what is available is a pair of Varunastra-B gauss cannons.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
I seem to vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Solaris had expansion slots on the front meant to fit specially designed guns that they had in the stockpile but had not installed pre-war and hadn't gotten the chance to install once the conflict kicked off (due to a pressing need to keep the destroyers ready to go at all times presumably).

 
Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
My thoughts on the Solaris is that it is cool and good and maybe the bit behind the rotating section should be flipped to make its engines look less weird.

Thanks for reading.

 
Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
Newton's Third Law of Motion "For every action, there is an equal yet opposite reaction." This is why jet propulsion works. This is also why, even with a fixed barrel, there is recoil. This is also why I said the system has to absorb it somehow.

I do just want to show my work here: the amount of energy pushed through the gun when it fires is constant, or at least not dependent on how the weapon is mounted. Energy is force times distance, and we have equal and opposite forces acting on the slug and the gun. The share of the shot energy that goes into the gun rather than the slug is therefore directly proportional to how far the gun moves while it is being fired. If it's mounted on a giant warship then it will not move much; if it is mounted on some sort of carriage to capture the recoil it will move much further. So any energy absorbed from the recoil comes directly out of the kinetic energy of the projectile.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: Thoughts on Solaris-class
I would still make the Toutatis mass driver as unique as possible then what it is derived from (the Narayana mass driver by appearance) so it would be more interesting to potentially watch in action.

But that is quite literally not the point! Calder was able to modiy the Big T with a bunch of huge guns because those gun assemblies were stockpiled parts that were originally intended to go on a Narayana somewhere. See, it would be nice if there was a special gun mod for the Solaris, custom built to exacting specifications and fitting perfectly, but there's just not enough time to make that happen within the timeframe of War in Heaven. Calder has to make do with what's available, and what is available is a pair of Varunastra-B gauss cannons.

I meant to potentially watch in action as the player. Sorry. I was not very clear.

If the story calls for very similar characteristics, then by all means. It is (as a team) your story after all.