Author Topic: Rudder pedals are hard.  (Read 3032 times)

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Offline jr2

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
... so you're trying to use a relative throttle (throttle pos + = increase speed until throttle neutral), not an absolute throttle (throttle min = 0 speed, max = 100)?

Which makes sense, or you couldn't reverse, but couldn't you do an absolute throttle starting at either a quarter or half of the throttle length, and a deadzone in the middle?

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
... so you're trying to use a relative throttle (throttle pos + = increase speed until throttle neutral), not an absolute throttle (throttle min = 0 speed, max = 100)?

Which makes sense, or you couldn't reverse, but couldn't you do an absolute throttle starting at either a quarter or half of the throttle length, and a deadzone in the middle?
Exactly, I'm trying to use a relative throttle, but for some reason I can't make it work, with steps set to one only the "increase key" is held down while the "decrease key" is pressed once without a center deadzone. With more steps it only presses the key a finite number of times which is often not enough or too much to go full throttle and slowing down, perhpas it can be done with positional mapping somehow but I still have to find a way to make it hold down the keys instead of pressing them once.

What is bewildering is that Roberts and his collaborators expected the players to mash the + and - keys instead of putting a couple of presets like Holland did in X-wing, he did it in Strike Commander but for some reason not in Wing Commander 3 even if it uses the same 3D engine.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
I believe JoyToKey can do that (select "Toggle ON/OFF" instead of "Repeat every x milliseconds").

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
I believe JoyToKey can do that (select "Toggle ON/OFF" instead of "Repeat every x milliseconds").
I didn't have good experiences with joy2key, also I know there are people that have succesfully programmed the relative throttle for wing commander but CH Hangar is very restrictive regarding the e-mail domains and country region for facebook login, sooner or later I should try activate another e-mail account and see if that works but for now time is short.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
Okay, so update...

In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 03:05:01 pm by Cobra »
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
Okay, so update...

In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.

Strange, never had any problem with X-wing alliance (at least not relative to the deadzone).
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
Okay, so update...

In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.

Strange, never had any problem with X-wing alliance (at least not relative to the deadzone).

Yeah, you replied to my post on gog.com. I can't seem to make fine adjustments in the game like I can in I-War 2 or FreeSpace. I have to move the stick just a small bit further to get movement. It's enough to be annoying when I'm trying to aim at a TIE from head on.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 01:10:18 am by Cobra »
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
Okay, so update...

In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.

Strange, never had any problem with X-wing alliance (at least not relative to the deadzone).

Yeah, you replied to my post on gog.com. I can't seem to make fine adjustments in the game like I can in I-War 2 or FreeSpace. I have to move the stick just a small bit further to get movement. It's enough to be annoying when I'm trying to aim at a TIE from head on.
How did you create the profile?
Did you use the wizard?
I always created the profile manually, I don't know if the wizard might alter the way the game takes the inputs.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
There's really no difference in how the profile is created. The wizard just seems to be a way to do this all at once, rather than one at a time. Do you have any changes to your gain and response settings?

If you had the calibration window open as you played XWA in mapped mode, would you be able to tell me what value you have on x or y before it starts registering movement?
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
There's really no difference in how the profile is created. The wizard just seems to be a way to do this all at once, rather than one at a time. Do you have any changes to your gain and response settings?

If you had the calibration window open as you played XWA in mapped mode, would you be able to tell me what value you have on x or y before it starts registering movement?
Dunno, I tried the wizard once but it has a 32 buttons limit that disables some of the buttons on the throttle, it's possible it does other things too but since that was a turnoff anyway I never delved further on what it does and did my profiles from scratch ever since.

It's not that complicated really, you only need to keep in mind that older games accepted a maximum of four axes: X,Y (stick), z (throttle) and r (rudder), just assign the desired value to the axes you need to use and then put them under "control manager device 1", the buttons you can map directly in the software apart from the first two or three for main functions like the fire buttons or the afterburner since many older games don't tolerate too many keyboard command at once (like for example cicling targets while hitting the afterburner), in Freespace and X-wing Alliance I assigned the rudder to the ministick x axis this way by tranforming it in the "ch control device 1" R axis and disabling the throttle wheel.

I'll see what I can do (I am at work most of the time lately), but from what I remember X-wing alliance doesn't like alt-tabbing that much on my rig.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
I was able to test it: centering at 128, a tie fighter started to pitch when the value went to 141/142.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
That's about the same for me as well. The distance just feels so big though.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
That's about the same for me as well. The distance just feels so big though.

It's probably a quirk of the flight engine, I'm so used to it I never noticed, since games at the time didn't have deadzone settings it was probably for the poor saps like me who had a crappy four button stick without any kind of software.
Also another quirk of the engine is the stick inputs going haywire when pointing at certain parts of the skybox (don't remember if there still was this problem in XWA but it's still there in XvT), I noticed only with the combatstick because with the crappy sticks I couldn't really tell the difference.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 07:43:20 pm by Det. Bullock »
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
I read somewhere that if you aim directly along an axis it gets funky.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Det. Bullock

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
I read somewhere that if you aim directly along an axis it gets funky.
Yep, that's the thing.
"I pity the poor shades confined to the euclidean prison that is sanity." - Grant Morrison
"People assume  that time is a strict progression of cause to effect,  but *actually*  from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more  like a big ball  of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." - The Doctor

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: Rudder pedals are hard.
Still, though... I wish I had gotten a CH set sooner. ****ing love this stick. Programming controls is so much better than Saitek's profile system, too. I really like the option of having certain buttons in DirectX mode or otherwise, so I can use all the buttons on the joystick. Now I just need the throttle.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta