Author Topic: Be my PC doctor  (Read 730 times)

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Offline Charismatic

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Have been having some issues for a while now, with a (what I consider to be) top of the line PC. Specs and issues listed on system builder.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/ephili/saved/wG4zMp

Its been a trend for high GPU usage and low CPU usage and yet low frames. My buddy says CPU bottle neck. Then he suggests I get a weaker GPU to 'match my mid range cpu'. I think something else is going on. Changing graphics settings in games does not see much if any change.

Quote
Issue 1) Have had many issues with BIOS being slow to POST and get to windows login/desktop screen. Currently an issue. Always gets stuck on VGA light and takes forever. Sometimes I have to reboot several times (forced) to get it to boot. Gets perma stuck booting sometimes never gets to windows. Newest BIOS (F3).

Issue 2) Low FPS in many games, and now that I have a 100hz 3440x1440p Ultra Wide Monitor, have had a lot of issues. CSGO is only one that runs at or over 100hz. Pubg is 53-62fps regardless of GPU settings (eg: low, or ultra). GPU load on PUBG was 98-100% while CPU was like 25-(maby to 40)% on all cores. I should have higher frames than this. FarCry5 on Ultra i get 50-65 range average was 63 on the in game benchmark. Orisis: new dawn I got 20fps consistent on all settings except Toaster (yes, its an Alpha build) where I got 30-45fps. I have tired with stock 2133Hz and XMP 3200hz.

Issue 3) Tearing, stuttering, micro stuttering. Vsync fixes tearing but adds lag which is bad, when the voice for a NPC on cut scene does not match lips. Yes monitor I got is freesync, and GPU is nvidia (Gsync) but I figured it could push 100Hz on its own without effort.

EDIT: After market CPU cooler returned, the capacitors were in the way of the bracket. They need new bracket for x470 or specifically Gigabytes version of MoBo. Used stock cooler.

And bought another Corsair RGB Strip Extension kit for 40$.

I am now 'one click' overclocked to 'extreme' which is 3.9Hz from Gigabyte software.
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Offline jr2

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*snort* A Ryzen 2700X is perfectly at home with a 1070 Ti, no worries there.  Check your memory timings?  I heard AMD was more picky with that, but I'd also think the software would take care of it for you.

Here, have a read through here, does any of that help? (check you have the latest BIOS update, they add better memory timings and stuff sometimes)

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDHelp/comments/8ge3ac/dualchannel_ram_issue_with_new_gigabyte_x470/

 

Offline jr2

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This also makes me think maybe memory configuration problem (Intel CPU on this one though):

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/926035-1070-ti-low-fps-with-~50-cpu-usage/

Quote
All cores (+Threads) jump up to 100 when i start the game, and than go back down to 60-70 while temps are fine and gpu usage is at 100 and frames are 40-50 on the lowest settings 1080p. I've got a friend with same specs, only 8gb ram not 16 and a gtx 1070 not 1070 ti, his game is running really smooth at higher settings. That's why i think some of my hardware must be broken.

Do check the website for the latest BIOS, I know sometimes it won't show in the auto driver updater software  for some makes (like mine).

 
Well hello there.

That's true, first gen Ryzen had lots of RAM compatibility issues, but then the AGESA update rolled in massively improving things. And the 2nd gen chipsets (so B450 and X470) should have next to no issues running most RAM sticks.
Now, an interesting fact, G.Skill are actually selling a Ryzen-optimised version of these RAM sticks, signed F4-3200C16D-16GTZRX (yours don't seem to have the 'X' at the end). BUT both should be able to cooperate with this PC.

With the boot issues, I'd check again if the BIOS is up to date and then look into the motherboard's installation instructions to check whether you've populated the proper RAM slots for 2-stick setup. I'd also take a look if everything on the motherboard is seated properly (memory, GPU, CPU...). If that didn't work, I'd load default values in BIOS and then check if the RAM will work at, for example, 2133MHz with 16-18-18-38 timings (rest to Auto; this seems to be the default setting for these) and maybe try some fiddling with XMP profiles. Some people also reported that disabling RGB lighting on these helps with stability for some reason.
And Ryzen likes to have high-speed, low-latency ram when it comes to performance. Compared to Intel, it actually makes a difference between like 2400MHz and 3000MHz.

Also, if you're running your games in your native screen resolution, then damn right you're going to have some issues with running i.e. Far Cry 5 on Ultra (look at the benchmarks https://www.techspot.com/article/1600-far-cry-5-benchmarks/page2.html). Your resolution is kind of between the 1440p and 4k from these benchmarks, so the results are rather expected. The solution would be to either fiddle with the graphical settings and lower the most taxing stuff (the best candidates being the least noticeable ones) or lower the resolution.
As for PUBG, https://www.reddit.com/r/PUBATTLEGROUNDS/comments/76l8d1/bad_fps_stutter_with_gtx_1070_i7_cpu/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/PUBATTLEGROUNDS/comments/8nn7ca/ryzen_2700x_constant_stutterlag_despite_high_fps/. CS:GO will push lotsa frames on any non-toaster configuration anyway. Orisis: New Dawn seems to be hated by people for having such FPS issues all over the place and being generally terribly optimised (installing some patches might help).

FreeSync (and G-Sync too) does not increase frames per second - it improves stutter, latencies and stuff like tearing. FreeSync requires AMD graphic cards and G-Sync used by NVidia requires a special chip inside the monitor - which effectively limits your buying choice to a certain number of models and these guys usually cost about $100 more than comparable FreeSync options. You could limit your ingame FPS to something like 60 or something to see if the tearing and stutter will be gone.
Mito [PL] - Today at 8:52 PM
I was supposed to make a short presentation about basics of optical fibers and here I am, listening to Eurobeat while reading about quantum cryptography.

 

FreeSync (and G-Sync too) does not increase frames per second - it improves stutter, latencies and stuff like tearing. FreeSync requires AMD graphic cards and G-Sync used by NVidia requires a special chip inside the monitor - which effectively limits your buying choice to a certain number of models and these guys usually cost about $100 more than comparable FreeSync options. You could limit your ingame FPS to something like 60 or something to see if the tearing and stutter will be gone.

If your running below 48fps freesync will take whatever FPS your running and double it to eliminate tearing and stuttering. so if your getting 30fps the screen will run at 60hz. Without this feature the screen will flicker at you as it struggles to display 30fps on the 48hz minimum.

Also running the 1080 GTX on my 1600x causes a bottleneck that overclocking the cpu cannot overcome, GPU ends up underperforming, even after a full windows wipe and then CPU overclock. The bench results show identical scores to his 1070ti, and we both experience indicators that tell me that both systems are bottlenecking, including microstutter and the inability to get a FPS boost when turning graphics down to LOW.

I am one of the guys trying to help him, I have two systems, one running freesync on an 1600x and RX480 and another system running a 7700k / 1080gtx. On open world games, the same games hes having issues with the intel/nvidia system ends up with stuttering when attempting to play on full ultra ( told him to turn a couple settings down to fix the issue but he refuses to do so ), nothing really helps the tearing except vsync which causes the video card to wait.... adding frame cap doesn't help as it cant really ever reach the 100hz limit on the 3440x1440 screen we both have.... I been telling him to just get two RX480's off ebay and crossfire for a hundred a pop, he would have  more graphics power and the tearing and stuttering issues would disappear, but hes become a die hard nvidia fan boy and wont do it. Gsync wont work as the Asus Strix 34inch ultrawide is a Freesync monitor..... wish nvidia wasn't all propriatary about open source adaptive sync technology, it just causes me to run away from considering their products.

At this point I have begun to give up on trying to help him, all the quick fixes i know that work on my similar systems he refuses to try.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:26:03 pm by [DW]-Hunter »

 
Well, if FreeSync works that way (I didn't educate myself earlier :P) that means it doesn't double FPS, it effectively displays the same frame twice with the monitor dynamically adjusting the refresh rate.
And well, buying NVidia GPU + FreeSync monitor wasn't a very smart choice but it happens for people for different reasons, just like that. Just as buying the 1070ti. And since he's got all this already in his hands, we have to work with what we have got.

Another thing that should be checked then is how the load is distributed across CPU cores (visible in Task Manager), because there might be a situation when a game can utilise only so many threads, i.e. the game uses 8 threads and the other 8 just stay dormant, resulting in <50% CPU usage.
It might be also worth to check if Game Mode (or something like that) in Windows 10 is disabled. From what I know, it tends to disable half of Ryzen's cores - it should be turned on only in Threadripper platforms.
You guys should also try some 3DMark benchmarks and then compare the results with other PCs with similar specs, just to be sure that no piece of hardware is underperforming.
It would be a good idea to take a look at CPU, GPU and RAM frequencies while gaming and also make sure nothing is overheating.

Have I already said that faster RAM with lower latencies brings a noticeable performance boost to Ryzen CPUs?
Mito [PL] - Today at 8:52 PM
I was supposed to make a short presentation about basics of optical fibers and here I am, listening to Eurobeat while reading about quantum cryptography.

 

Offline jr2

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Guys, he has 4 sticks (2x kits of 2x8, for 4x8) hence my suspicion of memory timings; it becomes harder to maintain timings with more sticks if I understand correctly?   Someone else here probably knows this in more depth than I do.

EDIT: Are these timings tight enough for the matched pairs to need to be in the same bank (as in, if the sticks are not matched into the same banks)?

 

Offline Charismatic

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They ran out of the quad kit when i was buying so I had to buy two 2x8 kits for the quad channel RGB. I did install ram correctly (every other slot) according to manual.

Is GPU load at 98-100% normal and standard, or does that indicate a GPU bottleneck? Should GPU load on games be 40-70%? On games the most my CPU works is like 25-50%. Some games it only uses 4, 8 or all 16 cores.

EDIT: Just ran. http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11482563
EDIT2: The first and second benchmarks after building this PC. Not sure what I changed. Probably ram to XMP or something. Not sure which is first and which was second.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/8578653
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/8578767
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 04:14:10 pm by Charismatic »
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"(CENSORED) Galatea send more than two (CENSORED) fighters to escort your (CENSORED) three mile long (CENSORED), STUPID (CENSORED).  (CENSORED) YOU, YOU (CENSORED)!!!"

 
Guys, he has 4 sticks (2x kits of 2x8, for 4x8) hence my suspicion of memory timings; it becomes harder to maintain timings with more sticks if I understand correctly?   Someone else here probably knows this in more depth than I do.

EDIT: Are these timings tight enough for the matched pairs to need to be in the same bank (as in, if the sticks are not matched into the same banks)?

Parts to consider:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820236442&cm_re=corsair_rgb_c14-_-20-236-442-_-Product



https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181139&cm_re=corsair_h150i_pro-_-35-181-139-_-Product

« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 06:49:56 pm by [DW]-Hunter »

 

Offline jr2

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<snip>

Unless you're saying you suspect his RAM or cooling solution, I'm not sure what you mean.

Eh... you *did* peel off any sticker from the bottom of the cooler part that goes on the CPU, right?

What's all of your different temperatures when stress testing?  (you can use HWINFO from my signature to find this)

 
I mean, he did return that coolermaster because it wouldn't fit? That alone makes very little sense to me X370 and X470 boards all have the same amount of space around the socket, that's why most cooler brackets mount "inwards"(curved towards the socket rather than away from it) on AM4 boards.

The stock cooler simply can't handle full load for any extended period of time, even at stock clocks, so you should really replace it ASAP.

As for your Framerates... FC5 looks normal to me for ultra settings(1070ti averages 37 FPS at 4K ultra), PUBG is horribly optimized and runs like ass no matter the settings so that looks fine as well. If you assume FPS scales linearly with pixel count(it doesn't, but still) and look at 4K benchmarks then you'd expect 61.95 average FPS on 3440x1440, which is roughly what you're getting. Remember that "Ultra" settings in modern games are mostly focused on future hardware and usually carry a heavy framerate cost. A 1070ti simply won't get you over 60 FPS at ~3K ultra in recent AAA titles.

Would be useful to know your framerates in games which scale well with both CPU and GPU(and not in early access). "Ashes of the Singularity" is a popular benchmark game but anything that's reasonably well optimized for 12+ threads should show decent results.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 01:57:16 am by FrikgFeek »
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 
Okay, the benchmarks you've posted suggest that in the last one you've had your RAM using the XMP profile and your PC's performance was excellent.
100% GPU usage is just as it should be for attempting to play games in Ultra settings in near 4K resolution. This means your CPU is definitely up to task. If you lower the details or the resolution, FPS will drastically rise, just as the CPU usage.
We still need your temperature reports! While this CPU will automatically boost its clocks as far as it can without overheating when not overclocked, you've forcefully overclocked yours. The heatsink should take this 3.9GHz no problem, but if there is an issue with its seating or the thermal compound is applied incorrectly, your temperatures could skyrocket.

@FrikgFeek: Actually, stock coolers coming with Ryzen are quite good. It seems like people are having temperature issues with this CPU only when OCd to about 4.1GHz, so 3.9 on all cores should be really fine.

4 RAM sticks are usually harder to run at any frequency than 2 sticks. So what if you remove 2 of them, and then check if the system is still having boot problems, Charismatic?
Mito [PL] - Today at 8:52 PM
I was supposed to make a short presentation about basics of optical fibers and here I am, listening to Eurobeat while reading about quantum cryptography.

 
Considering the Wraith couldn't even cool my R5 2600X at 3.9Ghz I doubt it can cool an R7 2700X at the same clocks. The 2 months I had to spend with that piece of **** were absolute torture, glad to be finally rid of it. Sure, it's fine if you're "just" gaming but if you actually max out all your cores and threads(during a stress test or with heavily parallelised tasks like video encoding) It will hit Tj.max after 5 minutes and possibly even freeze up your PC.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 
Considering the Wraith couldn't even cool my R5 2600X at 3.9Ghz I doubt it can cool an R7 2700X at the same clocks. The 2 months I had to spend with that piece of **** were absolute torture, glad to be finally rid of it. Sure, it's fine if you're "just" gaming but if you actually max out all your cores and threads(during a stress test or with heavily parallelised tasks like video encoding) It will hit Tj.max after 5 minutes and possibly even freeze up your PC.

i'de have to agree, stock coolers are never sufficient to run much more then a stock clock. Theres a reason most cpus don't even package a stock cooler anymore besides a bundled AIO, and its because you really should be using an AIO.

 

Offline jr2

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I believe the Ryzen 2 processors came with an upgraded cooler?  Could be wrong though.  Still always best to get an aftermarket cooler.

 

Offline Charismatic

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Any good software for capturing benchmarks and making them into a graph automatically?
I'll try to run a few games and monitor temps tonight.
Recommendations for a after market cpu cooler,  or aio?
The stock cooler is the best I've ever seen as stock btw.

I got a spare SSD yesterday and tried to put Windows 10 on it somehow that ended up corrupting my main operating system and then I had to reinstall after many many many failed attempts Windows on my main m.2 nvme drive again so I had to do a clean install and I finally got windows on both SSD and my main M.2, seems to have taken care of the booting issues it's not super fast but it's not slow anymore.
So all my programs wiped,  and Nvidia's GeForce experience won't successfully update the drivers. I had a fun 4 hours last night.  3 hours sleep,  yay.
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"(CENSORED) Galatea send more than two (CENSORED) fighters to escort your (CENSORED) three mile long (CENSORED), STUPID (CENSORED).  (CENSORED) YOU, YOU (CENSORED)!!!"

 
Any good software for capturing benchmarks and making them into a graph automatically?
I'll try to run a few games and monitor temps tonight.
Recommendations for a after market cpu cooler,  or aio?
The stock cooler is the best I've ever seen as stock btw.

I got a spare SSD yesterday and tried to put Windows 10 on it somehow that ended up corrupting my main operating system and then I had to reinstall after many many many failed attempts Windows on my main m.2 nvme drive again so I had to do a clean install and I finally got windows on both SSD and my main M.2, seems to have taken care of the booting issues it's not super fast but it's not slow anymore.
So all my programs wiped,  and Nvidia's GeForce experience won't successfully update the drivers. I had a fun 4 hours last night.  3 hours sleep,  yay.

 your supposed to unplug ALL hard drives before installing your os on a different drive.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 05:00:36 pm by [DW]-Hunter »

 
MSI afterburner with RTSS can capture and save benchmarking information. It'll be displayed as a graph for each variable you're monitoring. And it has things like GPU usage, GPU core and memory clocks, framerate, frametimes, CPU usage, RAM usage, etc.

Pretty much everything you'd ever want to benchmark.

As for a cooler just get a $50-$60 push-pull tower air cooler which lets you overclock up to the silicon limit with Ryzen(around 4.3Ghz) or if you want a ~cleaner look get an AIO for $80-$100. The difference in temps between something like a Freezer 33 esports and an AIO is like 0.5-1C. But with the AIO you don't have a massive aluminium slab poking you in the eyes.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 09:30:47 pm by FrikgFeek »
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Wait, with all this talk of coolers - you haven't overclocked anything have you? It's all running at stock frequencies and timings, right? (If you have I must have missed it).  If you have overclocked anything, does your system run properly at stock frequencies and timings?

Aside:  I can't speak for the Ryzen chips, but the stock coolers with Intel's not-so-old offerings were more than sufficient to keep up with stock frequencies, and given the immediate loss of warranty and stability problems that comes with overclocking, it's really not worth it unless you have a lot of spare money hanging around just in case.

Hunter is correct; Windows should only be installed on one hard disk in your system at a time.  Having multiple OS installs of the same version of the OS will cause serious problems, especially in Windows 10.  You're probably going to have to wipe both of those drives to fix your OS at this point.
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