Author Topic: Freespace Headcanons  (Read 3466 times)

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I felt that the Orion wasn't the very first generation of large ships (though that's just my guess), which indeed might've been very limited in internal space. Looking at the mainhalls of FS1, they don't appear to be neither particular big nor small; a balance between crew comfort and necessity with tendencies towards the latter.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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The reference bible refers to an Orions "Fusion Pile Genrators".

The mode of power generation was not in question; I was just confused because all sources I know (including the Ref-Bible) liken FS's Destroyer to Carriers not submarines.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Sorry bud.  Yeah I definitely agree.  Fleet carrier/destroyer.   Not cramped man-can.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Fleet carrier/destroyer.   Not cramped man-can.

Which is not mutually exclusive in a space ship.

The ample internal space of aircraft carriers is large parts a function to achieving sufficent displacement and stability - neither is a problem for space ship.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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The FS1 (and silent threat) mainhalls seem quite spacious.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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The FS1 (and silent threat) mainhalls seem quite spacious.

They also seem to double as spaces to house, arm and maintain the fighters you would be flying in the mission; which just to move the fighters around would mean that would have to spacious for no reason related to the comfort of the crew.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The Lantern King, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Considering a Nimitz carries 9000 crew at only 300m long a 2km long Orion should have no problem with 10000.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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All I was saying is because of the scale differences between the elysium,  the orion,  and the marines, way back when I played it in 1998- the marines should have been super tall if the orion was 2k long ;)  an easy headcanon to form when I was 16.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 04:00:22 pm by Colonol Dekker »
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Offline DefCynodont119

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Considering a Nimitz carries 9000 crew at only 300m long a 2km long Orion should have no problem with 10000.

^This a thousand times.   The official crew complement of an Orion is crazy small for a ship that big, also semi-related:

Quote from: FS2 Orion tech room description
The Orion's cavernous hanger bays easily accommodate more than two dozen fighter or bomber wings
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Offline DefCynodont119

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Of course It's also possible that the ship's entire crew are in a tiny module within the ship and the rest is just corridors patrolled by maintenance robots.

Or maybe it's secretly a full lux liner for the admiralty/command and a tin can for everyone else, who knows? Without internal diagrams or official lore about the insides of GTA ships it's kinda hard to tell.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the 3-dimentional area of an Orion? I want to calculate the minimum population density but I'm not great at that kind of math.  :nervous:


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Offline Colt

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I can't help but imagine there being some sort of high-speed transit system that gets people around warships quickly.  Pretty sure by the time you have read up to this point, the Argo has since docked with the Aquitaine and gotten its engines back up running, or the Discovery has already arrested the Trinity's crew.

I know it's like that for gameplay purposes and whatnot, but still.  :lol:

 

Offline niffiwan

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I feel that a comparison with a submarine size/crew is more relevant, i.e. a ship that needs to operate in a completely hostile to human life environment, not a ship where roughly half the surface area is open to the atmosphere.

So, Los Angeles class submarine, 110m with (from reading this) around 140 crew, which scaled up linearly gives ~2550 crew for 2km length. Of course, to be accurate I should calculate the actual volume difference but I can't be bothered :p (the wiki needs beam & "draft" for all ships!!!  ;7)
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Offline DefCynodont119

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Of course, to be accurate I should calculate the actual volume difference but I can't be bothered

Alright then, as I said I'm not great at this but I'll give it a shot:

After taking some measurements in FRED, (a unit in FRED is one meter) The main block of an Orion is about 450 meters tall, 400 wide, (without the hanger outcrop) and 2km long exactly. Putting that into here:

https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/geometry-solids/rectangularprism.php?given_data=hlw&h=450&l=2000&w=400&units_length=m&sf=6&given_data_last=hlw&action=solve

I get a Volume of 360000000 m3

The Volume of the Los Angeles-class submarine is 491127 m3

so, we divide the GTD Orion's volume by the submarine's and we get 733.  So the Orion has 733 times more volume.


Multiply that by 140 crew each and we get: 102,620.  Over ten times the 10,000 crew that we needed.  :lol:


and 100,070 more then 2550. . but hey, that's the difference between scaling up linearly and calculating the actual volume difference!

Anyone who wants to check my math or make a more accurate volume estimate for the Orion is more then welcome too.  :yes:

« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 01:28:02 am by DefCynodont119 »
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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I assume a huge amount of the rear quarter/third to be taken up by propulsion.

Ps-  I always felt the bastion meson bomb refit command brief had a bit of artistic licence to it regarding the bomb placement within the hull.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 04:19:09 am by Colonol Dekker »
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Ps-  I always felt the bastion meson bomb refit command brief had a bit of artistic licence to it regarding the bomb placement within the hull.

IIRC the CB showed the meson bombs with their TC-MB containers, what would make the whole thing much more complicated.

 

Offline Iain Baker

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This is interesting  :) - how do you know that they would for a fact develop at a cultural crawl? Have we seen an STL galaxy-spanning species develop? Not saying you're wrong, it could certainly be, but I'd like to hear why you say it's a near certainty that they'd develop slowly rather than at the same rate or even a faster rate than human civilizations as we know them - why "must" that be true?

Our own experience with culture is one of rapid shifts. A hundred years ago, our lived experience was fundamentally different from our lives now; we assume that a hundred years from now, our experiences will be different still.
For us, an interstellar, STL culture is unimaginable. Our experience shows that we would lose much of whatever commonality we started out with in just a few decades of isolation.

But if we assume that the Ancients could built an interstellar society that way, then that must mean that their culture is much more static than ours is. That they can remain recognizably "Ancient" even if they've been out of touch with their homeworld for thousands of years.

To me, that suggests that they are slow to develop new ideas, and somewhat reluctant to adopt them when they do. They probably took a long time to switch from newtonian physics to Einsteinian, and probably even longer to adopt the utter mind****ery that subspace would have to be for them -- but when they did, they could disseminate that tech quickly because they knew that all the colonies out there were still thinking roughly the same way and still speaking the same language, something humans could not.

This sounds very much like the depiction of 'The Race' in Harry Turtledove's 'World War series'. They have a 3.5 system STL empire (the .5 being ours, since they were only able to successfully take over Earths' southern hemisphere) Their society was hyper-conservative. They fear change. Indeed 'that would be a change' is possibly the worst sentence a member of the race can utter. They revere the spirits of past emperors and their imperial lineage goes back 100,000 years or more, so their society is very stable, but also very slow to adapt. A comical example is when they invented TV. They first allowed only a small isolated population to experience it for about three generations. Only after that experiment showed that TV was not disastrous to society did they allow it to the masses. (Considering how bad Reality TV is nowadays, they may have had the right idea  :lol: )

Their hyper-conservatism is linked to their development and geography. Their home world has no natural barriers to movement - no oceans, no mountain ranges etc. As such their tribal ancestors were pretty homogeneous, with little in the way of tribal conflict. So their society didn't fracture as much as ours did, and the lack of conflict meant they didn't need to advance rapidly. so hey didn't.

The other two sentient species they have encountered and taken over were very similar, so they assumed all life was like that. So, when they sent a probe to earth during the medieval period and saw knights on horseback being the most advanced weapons they naturally assumed that would be the same when their invasion arrived in 1940. We came as one hell of a shock when they saw we now had tanks and spitfires ;-)
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You don't need to go into the realm of SciFi to find explinations for static societies - Stalin for example partitially outlawed research on genetics, because he felt that you only needed a "communist mind" to be able achive everything you need (health, intelligence etc.). That could hit other areas as well - if you ban certain parts of research, technological progress won't come immediatly to a stop, but sooner or later you'll find yourself in a place where you can't advance anymore because you lack basic knowledge about different routes.