Author Topic: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?  (Read 745 times)

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Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Forgetting about the Shivans for the purposes of this topic, what were the war aims of the Terrans and Vasudans in their war against each other?

For instance, if the Terrans had 'won', what would that have looked like and what systems would they have taken in the final settlement?

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Well, the generly war goals are pretty simple to determine from the summary we have in the wiki:
Quote
Vasudans originate on the fourth planet of the Vasuda system, the only planet in that system that is capable of supporting life. Known as Vasuda Prime, is a relatively hostile world. Both of the twin continents of Vasuda Prime are almost entirely desert, and most of the above-ground water is, even by Vasudan standards, undrinkable.
[...]
Vasudan space exploration has been driven primarily by the need to find planets capable of sustaining their species.

With the PVN driven to expansion because of sparce ressources at home, the PVN war goal would have been access to additional system and jump nodes. In turn the GTA war goal would have been containment, controlling the direction of Vasudan expansion away from systems and routes they would want to claim.

Considering the canon node situation (including making the Sirius-Delta Serpentis Node from FS1's Clash of the Titans unstable), you wind up with the Antares-Vega-Deneb-Line as the core territory of the conflict, and a longer arm of the conflict streching from Beta Aquilae/Antares (via Vega, Capella, Epsilon Pegasi, Polaris and Regulus) to Sirius, which canonically is a terran system but connected to Vasudan system of Alpha Centauri (FS1's Exodus) - let's call that route the Sirius Transit :) .


As for a post-war situation, you have to consider the means of victory first:

- A victory by conventional means, would surely lead to disarmament of the losing party - simply to allow the victor to reduce their forces and return to a more sustainable economic footing. As far as territory is concerned it would probably depend on just how capable each side would be of imposing their claim still - might as well be that a conventional victory brought the victor to its knees just as surely as a defeat would have.

- A "victory" achieved by the deployment of WMDs would be different, mostly because it would have changed the landscape - considering who Subspace Warfare works in regards to Nodes as chockepoints, to impliment a unlimited MAD strategy is next to impossible - as you cannot establish and maintain guaranteed second strike capabilites. All that means, that by using WMDs one side would have basicailly guaranteed to live in paranoia of a first strike .... and the only remedy for that is total annihilation of the enemy - - which surely would motivate your enemy to escalate their strike capacities to total anihilation on any next strike.
Welcome to the Death Spiral. Enjoy your stay.

- A victory achieved through technological advancement in drive technology would fundamentally alter the geography between the powers, rendering previous strong points and defensive lines meaningless. Hard to predict which systems go to which side then.

- A victory achieved through a coup on either side. The post war situation here would depend on how willing the side that didn't have a change in government is to end the war, and how capable the new government is on controlling any troops that would dissent.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 06:11:00 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
My general guess would be that the goals changed countless times over the 14 years of war, depending on how the war went for each side.

 

Offline Novachen

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
I would say, only a dead terran is a good terran.

For the Emperor's sake, every terran planet must burn.
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Offline Cyborg17

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
It's kind of a mystery why the war lasted for so long.  If we look at FS2 to fill in the gaps a little, there was definitely a xenophobic (xenocist?) element to Terran culture, and that was probably more pronounced pre-shivan.

Looking at the Ancient Monologues, too, there are mentions of other species being "hideous", which, because of the parallels to the Terrans, imply that this was also a Terran opinion.

There was probably a small majority of xenophobic hard liners in the GTA that finally got overruled when the shivans attacked. My guess is they were looking for Vasudan disarmament, or at least had that as a stated goal.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
See my signature.
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Offline CT27

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Without the Shivans coming, what would the Hades be like?

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
An Orion?  ;7
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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Without the Shivans coming, what would the Hades be like?

It would still have an insane amount of HP, so it could make the way to VP without being blown up.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
I would say, only a dead terran is a good terran.

For the Emperor's sake, every terran planet must burn.

See my signature.

... here come the soberiing reminders that war is not just undertaken by rational people.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
I would say, only a dead terran is a good terran.

For the Emperor's sake, every terran planet must burn.

See my signature.

... here come the soberiing reminders that war is not just undertaken by rational people.

Well there are rationalities in war which are not solely related to a military victory. Also, considering that it was the first alien encounter for both sides, it is possible to presume that the total alienness of the other side could be seen as an existential threat.

 

Offline Novachen

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Well, if a vasudan get knowledge about what Terrans do with their own planet aswell with other species on it, you come to belief, that you are actually a life and even planet saver with every dead terran  :D
Female FreeSpace 2 pilot since 1999.
Global moderator in the German FreeSpace Galaxy Forum.

Responsible for the german translation project FreiRaum - FreeSpace auf Deutsch.
Also responsible for the Nova Upgrade Project, which upgrades and fix older campaigns to make them play- and solveable again with current builds and MediaVPs.

Release List:
German Translations:
Awakenings, Between the Ashes 1, Deneb III, FreeSpace 2 (in development), FreeSpace Port, Silent Threat: Reborn & The Destiny of Peace

Nova Upgrades:
A Walk in the Sun, Into the Halls of Valhalla, Luyten Civil War, Renegade Resurgence, Revenge: Final Conflict (in development), Rogues!, Shadow Genesis (de-facto), Storm Front Saga, The Deuterium Connection, Venice Mirror & What If: Another Great War

 
Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Who knows, maybe the Zods turned their own planet into a desert in the first place?

 

Offline Novachen

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Who knows, maybe the Zods turned their own planet into a desert in the first place?

Then they would know, that Terrans are even more idiotic, because they repeat the same faults :)
Female FreeSpace 2 pilot since 1999.
Global moderator in the German FreeSpace Galaxy Forum.

Responsible for the german translation project FreiRaum - FreeSpace auf Deutsch.
Also responsible for the Nova Upgrade Project, which upgrades and fix older campaigns to make them play- and solveable again with current builds and MediaVPs.

Release List:
German Translations:
Awakenings, Between the Ashes 1, Deneb III, FreeSpace 2 (in development), FreeSpace Port, Silent Threat: Reborn & The Destiny of Peace

Nova Upgrades:
A Walk in the Sun, Into the Halls of Valhalla, Luyten Civil War, Renegade Resurgence, Revenge: Final Conflict (in development), Rogues!, Shadow Genesis (de-facto), Storm Front Saga, The Deuterium Connection, Venice Mirror & What If: Another Great War

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Orpheus, having been a soldier for some time, rational people join to defend, but you never ever leave the service the same person.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Also, considering that it was the first alien encounter for both sides, it is possible to presume that the total alienness of the other side could be seen as an existential threat.

I never quite understood how some people to leap from the being uncomfortable with the Unfamiliar directly to wanting to make the strangeness go away ...

But then you can also inscribe this on my headstone:
Quote from: Babylon 5, S1E6 Mind War
And I am both terrified and reassured to know there are still wonders in the universe, that we have not yet explained everything.



Orpheus, having been a soldier for some time, rational people join to defend, but you never ever leave the service the same person.

I am grandson to a Wehrmacht soldier (not a legacy I am proud of; but I won't make excuses for him or any other member of my family) - I might know-by-proxy more things about war than you realise.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
To try and answer the OP's question in the sense of if the video game continued without the Shivans coming:

It depends.  If the powers that be in the GTA thought they were getting too exhausted anyways, they might ask for a cease-fire/armistice even without the Shivans. 


On the other hand, if Terrans are able to recapture the initiative and cause more military defeats by the Vasudans and push them back they might want to keep a system or two they captured.  Would that be Deneb or Vega perhaps?

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Also, considering that it was the first alien encounter for both sides, it is possible to presume that the total alienness of the other side could be seen as an existential threat.

I never quite understood how some people to leap from the being uncomfortable with the Unfamiliar directly to wanting to make the strangeness go away ...

But then you can also inscribe this on my headstone:
Quote from: Babylon 5, S1E6 Mind War
And I am both terrified and reassured to know there are still wonders in the universe, that we have not yet explained everything.



Orpheus, having been a soldier for some time, rational people join to defend, but you never ever leave the service the same person.

I am grandson to a Wehrmacht soldier (not a legacy I am proud of; but I won't make excuses for him or any other member of my family) - I might know-by-proxy more things about war than you realise.


Knowing will never ever be the same as experience bud.  Not to belittle your point, all due respect etc etc.
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Re: Goals of each side in the Terran-Vasudan War?
Also, considering that it was the first alien encounter for both sides, it is possible to presume that the total alienness of the other side could be seen as an existential threat.

I never quite understood how some people to leap from the being uncomfortable with the Unfamiliar directly to wanting to make the strangeness go away ...

While I often compare TV-war with intra-human conflict myself, I tend to keep in mind that Aliens might be have totally different moral values/aims as seen your plot thread. In a way, Terrans and Vasudans "got to know each other" during the war, but rather through tactical observation (i.e. realising that the goal of the opposite site are not too different to their own) rather than direct communication.