[Buckshee Rounds]

I just finished reading a long and comprehensive article on the aircraft by the BBC.

I've been following this since March, but I don't think we've had any discussions here yet afaik. We've passed 4 months since the aircraft was grounded. This thing is Boeing's darling, their answer to the A320 and the implications for both them and the FAA are significant. Thoughts?

[TechnoD11]

So Boeing doesn't exactly have a great record with transparency and accepting responsibility:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

MAX groundings will have a large impact on their bottom line for sure. Long term effects are anyone's guess right now.

[The E]

I've been following this since March, but I don't think we've had any discussions here yet afaik. We've passed 4 months since the aircraft was grounded. This thing is Boeing's darling, their answer to the A320 and the implications for both them and the FAA are significant. Thoughts?

Boeing got taken over by capital-M Managers with MBAs and quarterly targets who thought that the hard parts of engineering planes have all been done and something simple like updating the engines on a proven airframe can be mostly outsourced to people who are less expensive than Boeing's cadre of engineers.

[karajorma]

I'm just hoping they get sued to **** over it.

[Buckshee Rounds]

I've been following this since March, but I don't think we've had any discussions here yet afaik. We've passed 4 months since the aircraft was grounded. This thing is Boeing's darling, their answer to the A320 and the implications for both them and the FAA are significant. Thoughts?

Boeing got taken over by capital-M Managers with MBAs and quarterly targets who thought that the hard parts of engineering planes have all been done and something simple like updating the engines on a proven airframe can be mostly outsourced to people who are less expensive than Boeing's cadre of engineers.

Where did you hear that?

[Grizzly]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers

Rabin, the former software engineer, recalled one manager saying at an all-hands meeting that Boeing didn’t need senior engineers because its products were mature. “I was shocked that in a room full of a couple hundred mostly senior engineers we were being told that we weren’t needed,” said Rabin, who was laid off in 2015.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-boeing-engineers-say-relentless-cost-cutting-sacrificed-safety

The crisis, according to more than a dozen interviews with former employees and FAA inspectors and hundreds of pages of internal emails and records, is best understood as part of a larger drama that’s played out as Boeing has reshaped its workforce in an all-consuming focus on shareholder value.

[Rico]

I'm just hoping they get sued to **** over it.

I'm hoping the MAX is permanently grounded and banned, the aircraft sounds like it was a defective design to begin with and I will never fly in one regardless of how much approval the FAA gives them.

Fortunately it seems that other nations air authorities agree and will be checking the aircraft themselves as the FAA has proven they cannot be trusted.

[karajorma]

I'm reserving judgement as to whether the plane is flawed in concept. But I tend to agree about the FAA. Quite frankly I'm surprised that other countries have taken them at their word this long.

[karajorma]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49591363

The EU has said that they're not going to trust the FAA. Good.

[The E]

A good long-form breakdown of the systemic issues at Boeing that led to the 737 MAX disaster

[jr2]

Congress' report is out, blancolirio breaks it down:  (Direct Link to House's Final Committee Report in PDF form here).  Executive Summary can be found on page 4 if you don't want to read the whole thing.

EDIT:

I'm just hoping they get sued to **** over it.

I'm hoping the MAX is permanently grounded and banned, the aircraft sounds like it was a defective design to begin with and I will never fly in one regardless of how much approval the FAA gives them.

Fortunately it seems that other nations air authorities agree and will be checking the aircraft themselves as the FAA has proven they cannot be trusted.

It wasn't, the implementations of the software and hardware to address the new engine handling characteristics were just mind-numbingly stupid in their disregard for safety and transparency with the pilots as to what the aircraft's automatic systems were doing (which USED to be the whole Boeing design philosophy: the aircraft and the pilots are a team, the pilots are always in the loop, and in charge of what happens).

[Mobius]

I remember working on 737 MAX flights.



I also remember the feeling behind my shaky hands as I signed their paperwork.

[General Battuta]

Everyone on HLP should know the hazards of going High Max

[The E]

Fuuuuuuuuck why would you bring that back now I can't stop giggling

[General Battuta]

 

[Rhymes]

;-) :-P X-D :-) ^_^ #.#

[majorvader111]

The issue here is that Boeing has been forced to incorporate features into the 737 that are dominated by the airbus family line of aircraft which airbus do better.

But not only did Boeing fail to realize that, but they then try to cheap out by sacrificing safety features all for those juicy profits.

Honestly the 737 has done it's time since it wasn't made with future upgrades in mind, Boeing really needs to design a new 737 replacement instead of trying to add onto a plane that really cannot be upgraded anymore.

[jr2]

The issue here is that Boeing has been forced to incorporate features into the 737 that are dominated by the airbus family line of aircraft which airbus do better.

But not only did Boeing fail to realize that, but they then try to cheap out by sacrificing safety features all for those juicy profits.

Honestly the 737 has done it's time since it wasn't made with future upgrades in mind, Boeing really needs to design a new 737 replacement instead of trying to add onto a plane that really cannot be upgraded anymore.

I'd tend to disagree.  They almost pulled it off, except they shot themselves in the foot instead the target.  If they had better internal communication between teams, and actual care for safety, instead of just liability, they would have been fine. 

Try following Mentour Pilot on YouTube, he flies 737s.

Also, they were working on a replacement ('7M7', which was possibly the 797), but then the MAX fiasco happened, then COVID: