Author Topic: Vasudan takeover - a theory  (Read 1986 times)

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.

"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.

So basically, episodes 1-6 of Star Wars (except for the final 20 minutes) are completely Hyperintentional.  Nothing happened in those six movies that Palpatine hadn't planned for :P

Wasn' that because "The Force" had a plan on its own?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.

"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.

This sounds like a perfectly valid and awesome way to tell stories.

I knew you would like it.

But then again all it shows that we learned from very different traditions.

No it doesn’t. Unless you’re going to tell me you don’t like Shakespeare. Romeo and Juliet is hyperintentional. Most of Pixar’s movies are hyperintentional.

‘The action is driven by the characters’ isn’t a necessity of good drama, but I’d say it’s one of the most common techniques, and a perfectly useful one.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Battuta:

re-emphasis

"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting.

Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.

I said I skipped a lot because "intentionality" is a philosophical rabbit hole; e.g. you have to into the a whole affair to conceptualize the internal operation of the mind to form goals from present perceptions and past experiences.



As for the "you would like it":
It's a jab, at your preference for "master of the universe"-type of characters which you have expressed a affinity for in the past.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 10:11:12 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Yeah, that's exactly what I just said. The action in the story proceeds from the characters and their interactions.

A bunch of great spy and political fiction is the same. Some romance too, come to think of it. A lot of Greek myth.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Also why am I this boldface you

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Also why am I this boldface you

Inflection.

EDIT: A deadpan delivery of a joke doesn't work if you have to tag it with a symbol.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 10:20:58 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Yeah, that's exactly what I just said. The action in the story proceeds from the characters and their interactions.

It's a "yes, but..."-affair. To radically cut this short, there is a huge difference between the interactions as the play out and as they are intended, is what I am getting add for one. For the other, you propose to consider the unintended interactions between characters - after all, acting in false consciousness and contibuting to end they did not intent is not a defect of the character but a matter of them being embedded in a system collective interaction, in which not all consequence of any given course of action is considered equally.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 10:28:13 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
I think I follow.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
It's about an objection to the model of "psychologcially motivated, goal-oriented characters as the active agents who move through cause-effect chains of events. These events are based on a series of temporal deadlines that resolve with a strong degree of colosue by the time the [story] concludes"1 being the singular way to tell a story - despite it admittably being the culturally hegemonial way of our present.

1 - Lowenstein, 2010: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/rep.2010.110.1.105
(because I have that sitting on desk right this moment)
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
"Hyperintentionality" in effect (skipping all the theory involved because it's a lot) occurs in a story when the story only contains events that are the characters in the story intend to happen, or happen because as result of multiple characters' intentions interacting. Such a story would contain nothing that exists because of random occurence, unpredictability/chaos or error.

"Hyperintentionality" often occurs because of the presence of characters with hyperagency and/or hypercompetence. And unlike those two it is next to no uses in dramatic storytelling - it basically the easiest way to transfer a story into a clockwork.

So basically, episodes 1-6 of Star Wars (except for the final 20 minutes) are completely Hyperintentional.  Nothing happened in those six movies that Palpatine hadn't planned for :P

Since he's back for Episode 9, does that mean he oversaw things in the sequel trilogy too?

 

Offline darkdaej

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Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Well I think it's safe to say this thread has gone off-topic :P

But yeah, I'm gonna get to writing this up.  I've got TONS of ideas...and i might try a hand at FRED again (last time I touched it was in 2006) just to see if I can figure it out properly :P

 
Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Good luck with that~ :)

 
Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
The Vasudans had a very good reason to try to increase their influence - their homeworld was destroyed, the Terrans' was only cut off.
Should Sol ever get reconnected, the Vasudans would be at quite a disadvantage, unless they had the stronger position in the GTVA.

I personally don't think that it's a conspiracy reaching up to the emperor to take over the whole GTVA, but there would definitely be some power play going on behind the scenes...
Like some secret trade deal phone calls that seemed to not have taken place at all and such.

Maybe even a secret Vasudan NTF sort of thing?
An NVF?
'Teeth of the Tiger' - campaign in the making
Story, Ships, Weapons, Project Leader.

 
Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
The Vasudans had a very good reason to try to increase their influence - their homeworld was destroyed, the Terrans' was only cut off.
Should Sol ever get reconnected, the Vasudans would be at quite a disadvantage, unless they had the stronger position in the GTVA.


I think it's not only in the interest of the Vasudans but the GTVA-Terrans as well as they would put them into considerable disadvantaged too (politically and economically) with major Terran systems having as many inhabitants as Sols outer planets.
The Vasudans could use this to force their Terran allies to kill their family members...

 
Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
That is assuming the GTVA side would not agree to restore the capital back to Earth...
Khonsu may have been preparing for a happy reunion just in case.
'Teeth of the Tiger' - campaign in the making
Story, Ships, Weapons, Project Leader.

  
Re: Vasudan takeover - a theory
Returning to Earth is the only logical conclusion of FS IMO. GTVA politcians wouldn't like it probably. Earth might not like it either when they realize that they're open to Sath armada too.