[Nightmare]

I think the version fightermedic released had some issues with the maps, but that has been fixed in the MVPs, possible that this was the problem?

[mjn.mixael]

I think the version fightermedic released had some issues with the maps, but that has been fixed in the MVPs, possible that this was the problem?

Apollo has, to date, never been released in a MediaVPs

[Novachen]

Well.. if MediaVPs are carry FS1 assets... does that not apply to all the weapons for the $pbank & $sbank stuff? They have own weapon models, too 

But even it does not... why do you not give them the FS2 weapons by default? I mean every FS1 weapon has a FS2 equivalent you could use instead. And we are still talking about FS2 here... 

[mjn.mixael]

Mods may want to activate certain ships and not weapons. Mods may want ships with fs2 weapons or fs1 weapons. There's no way way too account for all that with +nocreate without, by design, potentially overriding a possible mod setting in a different table.

So, the tables are included as disabled. Mods can use them by opening and copying values into their own tables. This ensures there will be no bugs but still makes the assets much more easily available to mods that want to use them

[Zarax]

I've been waiting for this since the first MediaVP, if you guys ever pass by Milan sometimes I owe you a beer!

[Novachen]

Mods may want to activate certain ships and not weapons. Mods may want ships with fs2 weapons or fs1 weapons. There's no way way too account for all that with +nocreate without, by design, potentially overriding a possible mod setting in a different table.

Well... why not? I think you make it much too complicated?

I mean, you could still add additional ships with something like GTD Orion#FS1 into the ships.tbl... as a seperate ship class. Is there a problem with this?

For fighters i do not see the problem either. Even if they have the same tech description, you could simply could add the FS2 weaponary to the allowed banks for all ships that were present in FS1 aswell.

Example for the Ulysses:

$Allowed PBanks: ( "ML-16 Laser" "VLL-9 Laser" "Disruptor" "D-Advanced" "Akheton SDG" "Avenger" "Flail" "Prometheus" "Prometheus A" "Prometheus R" "Railgun" "S-Breaker" "Leech Cannon" "UD-1 Volz" "Subach HL-7" "Akheton SDG" "Morning Star" "Prometheus S" "Lamprey" "Circe" "Maxim" "Targeting Laser" )
$Allowed Dogfight PBanks: ( "ML-16 Laser" "VLL-9 Laser" "Disruptor" "D-Advanced" "Akheton SDG" "Avenger" "Flail" "Prometheus" "Prometheus A" "Prometheus R" "Railgun" "S-Breaker" "Leech Cannon" "UD-1 Volz" "Subach HL-D" "Prometheus D" )
$Default PBanks: ( "Avenger" "Prometheus R" )
$Allowed SBanks: ( "MX-50" "Fury" "Fang" "Interceptor" "Interceptor#Weak" "Hornet" "Hornet#Weak" "D-Missile" "EM Pulse" "Rockeye" "Tempest" "Tornado" "Harpoon" "Harpoon#Weak" "EMP Adv." "TAG-A" )
$Allowed Dogfight SBanks: ( "MX-50" "Fury" "Fang" "Interceptor" "Interceptor#Weak" "Hornet" "Hornet#Weak" "D-Missile" "EM Pulse" "Tempest D"  "Hornet D" "Harpoon D" )
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-50" )
$SBank Capacity:        ( 40 )

Would that break anything? I mean the actually usable weapons are set by the campaign and mission files... and the FS1 variant would not be used, as they would be an own ship class. I mean GTD Orion#2 (Bastion) from FS2 Retail is already exactly like this.. the Orion with FS1 weaponary.

[Nightmare]

In case for weapons, you'd have to include the entire FS1 arsenal or you'll have tons of debug warnings. Not that changes in loadout happened (the entire #Shivan weapons) but I don't see any actual benefits there, unless you're aiming for a major redesign of how MVP and FSPort work.

[Goober5000]

I think the version fightermedic released had some issues with the maps, but that has been fixed in the MVPs, possible that this was the problem?

Apollo has, to date, never been released in a MediaVPs

An HTL Apollo is in the current FSPort MVPs.  It is, I believe, the second HTL version to be created, but it's not the most recent.  It might be fightermedic's version.

[Novachen]

In case for weapons, you'd have to include the entire FS1 arsenal or you'll have tons of debug warnings. Not that changes in loadout happened (the entire #Shivan weapons) but I don't see any actual benefits there, unless you're aiming for a major redesign of how MVP and FSPort work.

And i thought that is exactly happen?

I thought all FS1 assets are going to be included by regular means. So that all ships and weapons are available in tech database and FRED2.

Because it made the impression that not only the models are going to be included into the VPs, but also with all the data stuff you have to activate via renaming currently.

[mjn.mixael]

Mods may want to activate certain ships and not weapons. Mods may want ships with fs2 weapons or fs1 weapons. There's no way way too account for all that with +nocreate without, by design, potentially overriding a possible mod setting in a different table.

Well... why not? I think you make it much too complicated?

I mean, you could still add additional ships with something like GTD Orion#FS1 into the ships.tbl... as a seperate ship class. Is there a problem with this?

For fighters i do not see the problem either. Even if they have the same tech description, you could simply could add the FS2 weaponary to the allowed banks for all ships that were present in FS1 aswell.

Example for the Ulysses:

$Allowed PBanks: ( "ML-16 Laser" "VLL-9 Laser" "Disruptor" "D-Advanced" "Akheton SDG" "Avenger" "Flail" "Prometheus" "Prometheus A" "Prometheus R" "Railgun" "S-Breaker" "Leech Cannon" "UD-1 Volz" "Subach HL-7" "Akheton SDG" "Morning Star" "Prometheus S" "Lamprey" "Circe" "Maxim" "Targeting Laser" )
$Allowed Dogfight PBanks: ( "ML-16 Laser" "VLL-9 Laser" "Disruptor" "D-Advanced" "Akheton SDG" "Avenger" "Flail" "Prometheus" "Prometheus A" "Prometheus R" "Railgun" "S-Breaker" "Leech Cannon" "UD-1 Volz" "Subach HL-D" "Prometheus D" )
$Default PBanks: ( "Avenger" "Prometheus R" )
$Allowed SBanks: ( "MX-50" "Fury" "Fang" "Interceptor" "Interceptor#Weak" "Hornet" "Hornet#Weak" "D-Missile" "EM Pulse" "Rockeye" "Tempest" "Tornado" "Harpoon" "Harpoon#Weak" "EMP Adv." "TAG-A" )
$Allowed Dogfight SBanks: ( "MX-50" "Fury" "Fang" "Interceptor" "Interceptor#Weak" "Hornet" "Hornet#Weak" "D-Missile" "EM Pulse" "Tempest D"  "Hornet D" "Harpoon D" )
$Default SBanks: ( "MX-50" )
$SBank Capacity:        ( 40 )

Would that break anything? I mean the actually usable weapons are set by the campaign and mission files... and the FS1 variant would not be used, as they would be an own ship class. I mean GTD Orion#2 (Bastion) from FS2 Retail is already exactly like this.. the Orion with FS1 weaponary.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about, though. Having weapons listed that may or may not exist will throw errors. Which brings us into the opt out version that I dismissed. In this case, mods need to actively include override tbms to override the MediaVPs tbms that would have these settings. Aka, dependency hell.

With the opt in version, fsu has all the assets and a mod can view the disabled tbm, copy the table data for whatever asset they want into their own tables, and then bam they are done with minor edits.

I was never, ever going to actually activate these assets in FSU. I am simply finding the best compromise to make it easy for mods to activate them.

[Novachen]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about, though.

Oh come on. There was no need for this "You are an archaic individual" attitude again...

I was never, ever going to actually activate these assets in FSU. I am simply finding the best compromise to make it easy for mods to activate them.

Well, that was not made clear to me at all. Because carry already meant to me much more than dead data.
But well, i think i do not have to say anything more then. Active Assets had would make much more sense then. Otherwise i could still download FSPort if i want to use them 

[Nightmare]

One of the main problems I see is that many mods using FS1 assets but no FSPort tend to use their own stats for ships and weapons. While it *might* be possible to include the FSPort-Upgrade tbms active without breaking things (every mod using custom ships.tbl without certain FS2 ships does basicly the same), everything else is probably a big no, as far as I can see this.

[mjn.mixael]

Nova, I think you've entirely misunderstood the purpose of this idea.

Regardless of the table data being loaded or not, a mod that wants to include the Apollo currently needs to get the assets (POF, textures, effects) and write a table entry. Under MediaVPs 3.9, all the mod needs to do is add a table entry. In fact, all they need to do is copy/paste a table entry.

I was going to set it up so that all they needed to do was add $name: GTF Apollo to a table, but for reasons stated above that makes things more complicated.

Nightmare seems to get it. FSU tbm data would overwrite mods that use a ships.tbl. So now they need a tbm to override a tbm that overrides their tbl. It's a non starter.