[Luis Dias]

Yeah, I recognize the problem, Battuta. You are treating conversations as zero-sum-games like Chess. No wonder you get riled up whenever someone starts acting silly.

May want to work on that?

[General Battuta]

Yeah, I recognize the problem, Battuta. You are treating conversations as zero-sum-games like Chess. No wonder you get riled up whenever someone starts acting silly.

May want to work on that?

It's actually about 'dialogue' with people who reject the existence of a consensus reality that contains objective facts, LUIS DIAS!!

[Nightmare]

I think the upshot of all of this, really, is... can we just leave PolDisc as it is for a while? Because now that Goober's out it's a small, deliberately hidden annex full of people who generally seem to get along. Not really sure what's left is menacing enough to burn down.

There's no need to discuss anything if all people there are already of the same opinion so you can just delete it

[General Battuta]

That's just a passive-aggressive way of saying you disagree with them.

[mjn.mixael]

I think the upshot of all of this, really, is... can we just leave PolDisc as it is for a while? Because now that Goober's out it's a small, deliberately hidden annex full of people who generally seem to get along. Not really sure what's left is menacing enough to burn down.

There's no need to discuss anything if all people there are already of the same opinion so you can just delete it

See, this mindset right here is a problem. Not every conversation is a debate or attempt to changes one's mind.

[Grizzly]

There's no need to discuss anything if all people there are already of the same opinion so you can just delete it

But they aren't of the same opinion.

[Sandwich]

So in order to solve the problem of moderating PolDisc (which is the root issue that caused everything to go nucking futs) your idea is to nuke all of PolDisc from orbit? Seems like you're shooting pretty wide of the actual problem.

The reason PolDisc got so ugly, in my opinion, was a fetishisation of 'neutral civil discourse' that said it was basically fine to have a board with thread after thread of Goober calling everyone else brainwashed leftist liars and everyone else calling him a Trump-loving loon, and looking in it was clear that this was insanely, pointlessly toxic for everyone involved and the board hosting it. If PolDisc is going to stick around it needs to be a place for discussion of current events and non-confrontational sharing of views where people have enough sense to avoid idiotic fight club threads where they try to own each over other irreconcilable ideological differences.

Is it as odd for you as it is for me that I agree with both of you right now? I think it's because you're identifying the actual source of the problem we had. PH has it right: "Non-confrontational sharing of views" is certainly a major factor that needs to be adhered to. When that fails, mjn hit the nail on the head: "solve the problem of moderating."

I should point out that neither aspects are especially intrinsic to PolDisc. Are they more likely to happen there? Sure. But that's not PolDisc's fault per se. Don't blame the board for people's inability to obey the rules.

Everybody should be responsible for their own civility and respect toward others, no matter what board they're posting to. And when there's a violation of the rules of respect and civility (no matter the board), the matter should be dealt with, and if need be, the guilty parties should be held accountable.

We can preach the value of moderation and rational discourse, but in the end, one side is going to be right. Don't fetishize detachment and disregard. There are subjects on which reasonable disagreement is possible, but there are also subjects which history shows us end up having a right side and a wrong side.

For accuracy's sake, let's just say that with some of these things, there's one side that ends up the winner in a society, and one the loser. It's not all necessarily "right" vs "wrong". Eg. Civil rights? Sure, right/wrong. Gay marriage? Subject to individuals' freedom of beliefs, so let's call it winner/loser. Wars in Iraq & Afghanistan? Possibly a right/wrong situation, but we don't know what would have happened without those wars. Abortions? winner/loser. Climate change? Right/wrong. Covid-19? right/wrong. Pineapple on pizza? right/wrong (it's so, sooo right).

[Colonol Dekker]

I say keep it, the only thing that's changed is its less prone to corrupt flights of topic adjustment.

It's a nice little heat sink to keep the  rest of the board nicely chilled, and let's be honest here, if people don't like poldisc, they can....... Stay out.

[Phantom Hoover]

I want to be clear that I don't think PolDisc should be about "respect for all views". If your views are entirely incompatible with objective reality and everyone else on the board then you should not be participating.

[deathspeed]

... Pineapple on pizza? right/wrong (it's so, sooo right).

I've been trying to stay out of this, but now someone has gone too far.

[MP-Ryan]

I've been trying to stay out of this, but now someone has gone too far.

I'm sorry, I have to step in and defend Sandwich on this.  Not only is ham and pineapple pizza delicious, it's a Canadian invention.

[JSRNerdo]

At the very least, can we have the political discussions opt-in/opt-out actually work so that you can hide poldisc if you don't want to see it? I don't have the political discussions usergroup but I can still see it/post there.

[Sandwich]

I want to be clear that I don't think PolDisc should be about "respect for all views". If your views are entirely incompatible with objective reality and everyone else on the board then you should not be participating.

Not respect for all views necessarily, no, but basic human respect for the person themselves, and their right to have their own viewpoint, even if it is "wrong" (from your POV, or even from objective facts). Nobody ever convinced anybody to change their views through force, verbal assault, etc.

Let me give you a nice, simple, non-controversial example. I believe that homosexuality is wrong, that it's a sin. And yet, I also believe that homosexuals have the right to choose that way of life. It's as simple as that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mobius]

Some of the arguments in favor of keeping PolDisc are based on the supposed low frequency of major flames/issues occurring on that board compared to the number of threads and posts.

Frankly, it doesn't matter: it's still an intrinsically dangerous and destabilizing place for the community, and a low rate of major issues (1 in 2-3 years) is not enough to justify its presence, because when stuff happens over there, it's on a much larger scale compared to other "accidents" taking place elsewhere.

[Lorric]

The main reason that Pol Disc has less incidents is less opposition to the dominant position. Nearly everyone has been driven out. Though hiding it from view of the public helped a lot too. If Freespace suddenly got popular somewhere that has a different point of view, and those people joined and started posting in Pol Disc, the flames would roar anew. It's like a dormant volcano right now.

[deathspeed]

At the very least, can we have the political discussions opt-in/opt-out actually work so that you can hide poldisc if you don't want to see it? I don't have the political discussions usergroup but I can still see it/post there.

The day PolDisc came out I went to my profile account settings and checked the box to ignore the board.  I can still see it on the list of boards but i don't get notifications about new posts which makes it easy for me to forget it exists. 

[Aesaar]

The notion that the purpose of discussing something is to convince others you're right is a flawed one. 

I don't argue with people in order to change their minds.  I argue with them to see if they can change mine.  A discussion can help me refine and strengthen my position.  The purpose is self-development.  I don't much care if the person I'm arguing with agrees with me in the end.

[Grizzly]

If only hlp was a bastion of the far left, there would be a lot more drama and infighting.

[MP-Ryan]

I have just finished playing several hours of "Among Us" with friends and randoms, and whatever we do, all future disputes are to be settled by backstabbing and sabotaging on a spaceship because there really is no reason not to.

[The E]

if we wanna do hardlight among us, I'm game