[Janos]

Oh well, I guess I have been hanging out at the wrong forum for chit-chatting and scientific news discussion

hello thar

[Janos]

Also, why the hell are you people so afraid of debate? HLP mods don't seem to know how to actually moderate it - there have been a goddamn umpteen times when serious discussion has been locked because A) someone starts to post stupid stuff (way to punish the rest of the people there folks good job) or B) it doesn't "lead" anywhere or something.

[Flipside]

Oh FFS!

So now it's our fault for not knowing how to moderate 'properly'?

Screw you guys

Did it occur to any of you that the best way to prove to the Admin that a Forum for Prima Donnas isn't needed is not to act like them?? I'm all for remerging the forums and fixing the post counts, but if you're going to all walk around picking one reason after another why this is wrong, then you are simply proving them right.

[Taristin]

"the forum should remain on the bottom"
why?
I have yet to hear any good reason why this change was needed in the first place

It was changed because it isn't the predominant reason for this forum's existence. It may be why you come here but why you come here, and the purpose this place is supposed to serve dont have to be the same. The very first forum a new member would see on the old setup was gendisc, which had nothing to do with "Bringing Modders Together."  Almost every other forum has their OT sections on the bottom. Why is it a problem for you if it is done here?

Also, why the hell are you people so afraid of debate? HLP mods don't seem to know how to actually moderate it - there have been a goddamn umpteen times when serious discussion has been locked because A) someone starts to post stupid stuff (way to punish the rest of the people there folks good job) or B) it doesn't "lead" anywhere or something.

Janos, You act like a tool, and it's often you, through your interjection of useless crap, that leads threads on their slippage towards lockage. Don't blame us, blame yourself.

Oh well, I guess I have been hanging out at the wrong forum for chit-chatting and scientific news discussion

When, perse, has anyone ever discouraged you from posting your threads here? No one said you can't or shouldn't. We said it shouldn't be prominent.

[Mars]

<Edited out because of redsnipers following remark>

It does seem like a lot of trouble for nothing to me.... I mean... is this rearrangement likely to fix anything?

[redsniper]

No, he didn't. Don't try to make things worse.

[Taristin]

The rearrangement was supposed to help as a step in the right direction towards giving this place a focus. No single change is going to magically fix all of HLP's problems, but a stubborn userbase isnt helping either. What I mean to say is that there cant be everyone grabbing their pitchforks and running to town square every time something changes on here. times are changing and HLP needs to change with them.

[Mefustae]

Which is more important, the userbase or the forum?

[Taristin]

That's a non-answerable question; without a userbase there is no forum, but without a forum there is no userbase. Both have to change over time. In nature, things that resist change die. If HLP doesn't change, it too will die. And if the userbase refuses to accept the changes, it too will dwindle away.

However, the userbase is changing and growing every day. For example: A lot of the members who were part of this "community" when I was new have since left and never come back. A lot of the names here today I dont recognize. How many from when you joined up still remain?

What happened to Orange? Dynamo? Venom/Nico? Max Sterling? Tiara? Stryke9? Solatus? Etc.

Trying to be a martyr won't stop change.

[Janos]

anos, You act like a tool, and it's often you, through your interjection of useless crap, that leads threads on their slippage towards lockage. Don't blame us, blame yourself.

Don't try to pull that. You know quite well what I mean. Look at politics and evolution/religion threads - yeah I know, it's the same every time, but as soon as people start to discuss things someone flips a switch and posts some inane rant. After that the thread is locked. Why? Why punish those who actually discuss things by locking the thread - why not just monkey those who **** in threads for a day or two, then let discussion go on? It's almost like people were allergic to discussion and every single disagreeement, even if it is completely justified, is automatically taken as "flaming" or "trolling".

[Flipside]

Yeah, those threads like 'Cluster**** to the Whitehouse' started out with such good intentions.

[Taristin]

anos, You act like a tool, and it's often you, through your interjection of useless crap, that leads threads on their slippage towards lockage. Don't blame us, blame yourself.

Don't try to pull that. You know quite well what I mean. Look at politics and evolution/religion threads - yeah I know, it's the same every time, but as soon as people start to discuss things someone flips a switch and posts some inane rant. After that the thread is locked. Why? Why punish those who actually discuss things by locking the thread - why not just monkey those who **** in threads for a day or two, then let discussion go on? It's almost like people were allergic to discussion and every single disagreeement, even if it is completely justified, is automatically taken as "flaming" or "trolling".

Im not "pulling" anything. It's easy to blame the staff. Especially moderators who don't have power to monkey. Threads dont get locked for a single member posting crap, they get locked when several members do so. And that happens in almost every thread because there's nothing more to discuss any more. You all know eachother so damned well and know what each will say. Someone resorts to insults, wethere explicit or implicit, and the entire thread goes down from there. What do you want? Those threads to remain open and have everyone simply insulting  eachother like the anchors on quahog news?  And that has nothing to do with why the forum is placed on the bottom. It's down here because politics and religion have absolutely nothing at all to do with freespace modding.

[Flipside]

What pisses me off is that nine times out of time, I'll just tell people knock it off or Be Nice. But since the 'It's the heart of the community!' argument seems to be petering out, I suppose 'The Mods aren't doing their jobs!' is the next line of attack.

[Taristin]

It's people arguing for the sake of arguing. Nothing has really changed for them at all, but instead we moderators have a lot more work, yet they're up in arms.

It's not "the community." The community are the people who don't generally post in Gen Disc, but instead are on the other subforums. This "community" happens to be a smaller minority within the larger community that has more or less isolated and insulated itself and is terrified of change.

[Janos]

i didn't know mods didn't have the power of the monkey, i'm sorry. Maybe they should!

People argue because people argue - it has nothing to do with FS but does it have to have?

edit:

Here's where members can come to chat about life, the universe, and everything.No debating is allowed -- ask to join the Meeting Hall group for that.

Why? If the arguements suck then shouldn't people try to make them better, not try to block it out and arbitrarily deciding what debate is "good" and what is not?

[Taristin]

i didn't know mods didn't have the power of the monkey, i'm sorry. Maybe they should!

People argue because people argue - it has nothing to do with FS but does it have to have?

You can still argue! Just at the bottom, and not the top!

Meh. I give up. There's no reason here. Its just arguing because people like to argue. Im done.

[jr2]

Hmph.  I understand the moderators point of view..
The only thing I think that needs changing badly is having to ask to join Town Hall.  Now, how about instead, you can get kicked out of Town Hall (for bad behavior), and you have to ask to get back in?

Also, as I said, "padded cell" "stupid stuff"  c'mon.  Unless that's all that gets put in there, don't label it that.  If someone hijacks a thread, or many people do, cut their posts out, and put it in stupid stuff as a separate thread, don't toss the whole thread in there.

[Falcon]

Most forums I've been too, General Discussion or Off-topic boards were always located at the bottom, not at the top.

[jr2]

Go vote here:
New Hard Light format
and here:
is this realy an improvement

[Falcon]

omg...