[FreeSpaceFreak]

We are an army. We were created a long time ago to protect our Creators from other races. We were given Motherships to live on. We were given Sensors to detect every use of subspace nodes within several systems distance. Our smaller ships were given Shields to protect them from the fire of our enemies. Our larger ships were armoured well enough to protect them. Our Command Ships were shielded and armoured, and they had Beams to destroy every single trace of our enemies. And for long, that worked fine. For long, we obliterated every single life form we could Sense. They could not harm us, for we were invulnerable.

Then, for a long time, we did not Sense anything. We were confused. Did we extinguish all life in the Galaxy, and were we now alone with our Creators? Or were our Sensors being fooled by a new species, cleverer than all the others we had encountered before? We felt something we had never felt before. For the first time, we feared. We feared that race. We feared the race which was smart enough to fool our only way of Sensing them. Would we still be invulnerable to them?

By the time they attacked us, our fear had turned into anger. We attacked them with everything we had. But they were even smarter than we expected. They stopped us. They closed the node through which we attacked them. One of our Command Ships and a part of his fleet were isolated on the enemy side of the node. We haven’t heard of them ever since. We were defeated.

We asked our Creators for more and better weapons, so we could defeat the smart ones if ever they came back. We were given new weapons, new ships and new Beams. But that was not enough. We knew they could give us more, but they did not want to. Therefore, we spied them. We stole technology from them with which our Motherships could escape them. We found that our Command Ships could be tracked through whatever node we followed, so we had to leave them behind. The plans were ready. All we needed now was a star on which we could use the Escape Technology. It was only experimental when we stole it, so it needed a very specific star type to work. But we didn’t find one that met our needs.

Then, our Sensors sensed usage of the node that was once closed. We sent a robotic reconnaissance party to find a suitable star behind it. We didn’t expect it to survive for long. Reinforcements were on the way. But when it sent back the scan data, we were euphoric. Finally, we had found a star with which we could escape.

But again, there were enemies. They were not the smart ones. These ones were even smarter. These ones had shields and beams as well. We were horrified, but the will to escape our Creators was bigger than our fear. We attacked them with everything we had, except for our Command Ships. We did not want any witnesses to what we were doing.

Yet we underestimated these enemies. The first of our Motherships was destroyed. A tremendous loss. Our scientists warned us: they were not sure if the Escape Technology would still work. But the plan was already started: there was no way back now. We had to take the risk, and so we did. We retreated into the Motherships and controlled our warships from there.

The Technology did not work as expected. Most of our Motherships Escaped, but some remained behind. We do not know what happened to them. We will not be able to Escape again, for we need those ships and we do not know how to build new ones.

At this moment, all is quiet in our new home system. There are no Creators to protect, nor are there enemies to defeat. Finally, we are at peace.


But for how long? Once, a new enemy will come and surprise us, for we left our Sensors behind. Without supplies or shipyards, we will not survive the next attack. We all know it, but no one dares to say it. We fear. We fear the new enemy, which is bound to come.

[Jeff Vader]

One thing poked me in the eye:

We found that our Command Ships could be tracked through whatever node we followed, so we had to leave them behind.

the records contain the information to enable us to track a capital ship into and inside subspace.

This states that any capital ship can be tracked in subspace. Not just the, um... 'Command Ship'.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

No, what I mean is that the Command Ships (= Lucifers) have some kind of 'beacon', through which the Creators (sorry for my lack of inspiration there) can see everything they do, even from 100s of light-years and tens of systems away. The normal subspace tracking works only in-system, AFAIK.

[Jeff Vader]

The normal subspace tracking works only in-system, AFAIK.

Nope. Inter-system. That's how the GTA and the PVN tracked the Lucifer from Delta Serpentis to Sol. And many NTF ships in, for example, The King's Gambit.

[S-99]

Tracking ships into and in-transit in subspace was one of those nice things that TV forces got to learn about from the ruins on that old wiped out planet that use to be an ancient planet that also had the secret to destroying the lucifer. Tracking ships in subspace is also something that happens fs2. So, yeah, pretty much all ships can be tracked through subspace.

This theory is cool because it puts a different spin on the shivans getting created by a creator to be the creators protector. In this theory, the shivans were created, accepted and followed their role honorably (maybe even with some pride?) and obviously dependably. Among being created to be protectors for a species, they aren't just remote controlled robots, in fact to the contrary this theory is cool because these shivans aren't artificial intelligence robots going mindlessly insane. These shivans actually have a mind for once and are even somewhat naive (they don't know all what's out there, they don't know if they may have destroyed everything, the fact that they haven't anything but other shivans and their creators for hundreds of years pretty much makes them born yesterday as opposed to hundreds of years prior where there were other species to war and maybe even socialize with). Though, as much as i said these shivans aren't insane, it doesn't mean that they weren't driving themselves crazy for a time because of the whole possibility of "what if there's an enemy that's stealthed itself to our scanners". The shivans by this theory didn't know that wasn't true, but as long as it's the shivans and their creators in a certain area of space i'm sure it wouldn't hurt for them all to go looking for what they may or may not find, and especially find the wrong thing, but finding something nonetheless.

This also puts a good spin on the shivans aren't robots on behalf of the creators in this theory and the way the shivans talk in this theory. Shivans in this theory appear to be created biological species or maybe an enslaved species which eventually respected their masters, but being created in a test tube with genetic traits to be loyal seems more likely.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

The normal subspace tracking works only in-system, AFAIK.

Nope. Inter-system. That's how the GTA and the PVN tracked the Lucifer from Delta Serpentis to Sol. And many NTF ships in, for example, The King's Gambit.

Alright... But is it -with GTVA tech levels- possible to track ships in the Nebula from, say, Barnard's star? That's what I meant, but with even larger distances.

(...) "what if there's an enemy that's stealthed itself to our scanners". The shivans by this theory didn't know that wasn't true, (...)

It is. I admit, it's not very clear here because of the point of view, but... Damn, how to explain this...

Subspace usage could in some way be compared with a sonar ping: if your head is in the water (= natural nodes), you hear it very clearly, but when you're out of the water (= Knossos portals), you don't hear a thing. So the Shivans didn't detect the Ancients.

[Retsof]

Now if only the Shivans had said "hey, urm... we need to go through your space"  instead of just blasting things.

[Jeff Vader]

Now if only the Shivans had said "hey, urm... we need to go through your space"  instead of just blasting things.

Hmm. Imagine the changes brought by such a drastic difference in attitude. The FS1 intro could have been like:

-Vasudan and Terran fighters having a skirmish. Suddenly, a group of death black ships appear. Everyone goes silent. Then, without warning:

Shivan fighter: "Don' mind 'bout us. Just going through."
Lt. Ash: "Oh. Um... ok. I guess."

-Shivan ships go away.

Vasudan fighter 1: "Well, that was boring."

-Fade to black.

[Snail]

Adam Pletcher 2/26: We could use a bit more action for the opening sequence.

[jdjtcagle]

I like it, but why do the shivans react the way they do when bosch contacted them?

[Snail]

IMO that's the hardest thing to explain when making a Shivan theory.

[S-99]

(...) "what if there's an enemy that's stealthed itself to our scanners". The shivans by this theory didn't know that wasn't true, (...)

It is. I admit, it's not very clear here because of the point of view, but... Damn, how to explain this...

Subspace usage could in some way be compared with a sonar ping: if your head is in the water (= natural nodes), you hear it very clearly, but when you're out of the water (= Knossos portals), you don't hear a thing. So the Shivans didn't detect the Ancients.

I wasn't indicating that this part was unclear. I was indicating that the shivans probably went crazy for a time looking for a needle in a haystack where the was no needle. According to your theory, they did this by looking for enemy ships that were stealthed to their sensors that they didn't know weren't actually there. So they end up looking for something that not's there, finding something else instead. In other words the shivans were paranoid looking for something that wasn't there, which lead them to finding other stuff that didn't fit the description of what they were actually looking for, but they don't care and or don't know.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Now if only the Shivans had said "hey, urm... we need to go through your space"  instead of just blasting things.

They were afraid that their Creators would follow them, so they did not want any witnesses to survive. With better tech levels, we could have tracked them (or at least, that's what they thought) and we could tell their Creators where they had gone.

I like it, but why do the shivans react the way they do when bosch contacted them?

Damn, I knew I had forgotten something... I'll think about it.

[Clawandfang]

I think its a pretty neat theory, but could use one modification. Like the player said at the end of FS1, I think that the Shivans only attacked those that entered subspace. Fitting that into your theory would make the Creators believe that only civilisations with access to subspace could be a threat to them.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

I think its a pretty neat theory, but could use one modification. Like the player said at the end of FS1, I think that the Shivans only attacked those that entered subspace. Fitting that into your theory would make the Creators believe that only civilisations with access to subspace could be a threat to them.

In fact, that's in it already. Those Sensors detect subspace usage.

[Clawandfang]

I think its a pretty neat theory, but could use one modification. Like the player said at the end of FS1, I think that the Shivans only attacked those that entered subspace. Fitting that into your theory would make the Creators believe that only civilisations with access to subspace could be a threat to them.

In fact, that's in it already. Those Sensors detect subspace usage.

Yes but I was saying that if the Shivans found a civilisation which couldn't (or wouldn't?) use subspace, then they would keep tabs on them to make sure they didn't start, but on the whole leave them alone.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

I think its a pretty neat theory, but could use one modification. Like the player said at the end of FS1, I think that the Shivans only attacked those that entered subspace. Fitting that into your theory would make the Creators believe that only civilisations with access to subspace could be a threat to them.

In fact, that's in it already. Those Sensors detect subspace usage.

Yes but I was saying that if the Shivans found a civilisation which couldn't (or wouldn't?) use subspace, then they would keep tabs on them to make sure they didn't start, but on the whole leave them alone.

I understand what you mean, but I imagined the Shivans more like guardians of an "Atlantic Wall". The Binary System would have been a guard bunker.
As long as they don't detect subspace usage somewhere, they stay where they are, and therefore they don't encounter non-subspace-faring species.

[Clawandfang]

understand what you mean, but I imagined the Shivans more like guardians of an "Atlantic Wall". The Binary System would have been a guard bunker.
As long as they don't detect subspace usage somewhere, they stay where they are, and therefore they don't encounter non-subspace-faring species.

Ah... I see. That works for me.

[venk]

The Shivans are, obviously, named after the Hindu God Shiva who is also known as the "The Destoryer of Worlds.".  Seems like a pretty bad guy, huh?

He is also one of the highest Hindu gods and many Hindus worship him above all.  Once you understand why, you understand what I think the original writers were going for in describing the Shivans.

I think if the Devs would have been able to tell the entire story, we would have ended up with a Trimurti which is a sort of holy trinity in Hinduism.  Brahma is the creator, Vishnu is the maintainer, and Shiva is the destroyer.  The Shivans were not created by a creator, they are part of this triad that "oversees" (for lack of a better phrase) this universe.   This whole concept is probably one of the most common structures used in Science Fiction.  Babylon 5, Stargate, Galactus (the comic book character), Mass Effect, and many more.

PS.  I love this Freespace 2 reborn project.  Thanks to everyone for keeping my favorite game of all time alive after all these years.

[Mobius]

Welcome to the HLPBB!!!

Look better at Shiva's role in Hindu religion. You will find some connections to regeneration(the Shivans "work" for the sake of the universe).