Author Topic: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]  (Read 12079 times)

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Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
I never built another CL, but this is something that could be made, based on late-game tech:

'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Okay, but who would win in a fight?
The entire kingdom of ireland vs zero potatoes?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
I never built another CL, but this is something that could be made, based on late-game tech:
[snip]

6 quad turrets on a CL! Is half the tonnage in ammo?

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Naaaaah. With 140 shells per gun, we only need 300 tons of ammo.

6 inch German shells are pretty light.

So, turns out that quads are illegal on CLs. If I sacrifice half an inch of belt armour, though, I can make the belt normal instead of narrow, get full AoN benefit (which does not work with narrow belts) and still get 24 guns in on eight triple turrets.

The OTL Atlanta had a tapering belt from 3 to 1.something inches after all, so keeping this belt to an average of 2.5 inches is pretty valid.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Again, not directly related but cool none the less:
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
That's it, I ordered the game :D
Edit: Holy smoke, ship design is hell of a ride.
Before finding out that I can let the AI design the ships, I was content to copy Enioch design.
Guess I havent read the manual closely enough, after designing the legacy fleet, I thought building two more battleships would mean that they would be built, instead they showed up in my "in service"tab... clearly, I need more practice :D
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 06:48:41 am by crizza »
Check out my blog:

http://geo.schulzbert.de/

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Nah, you get two stages. One is the ships that have been completed already, one is the ships that are halfway done. You get a huge discount for the latter.

Welcome to the fold, mate!
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline crizza

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Yeah, I figured this out.
The autodesign feature comes in realy handy, because designing the superstructure is a pain :D
Right now it's 1919, I'm at war with France for the second time after half a year of peace and find myself dangerously low on ships, since I scratched old ones.
And I guess building 44k ton battleships a year before everyone gets oil was a bad idea, but 14inches of armor are a tough nut to crack. :D
Honestly, that game is a addictive...
On friday I wanted to play an hour after dinner... the next time I checked the time it was 11 pm :D
Check out my blog:

http://geo.schulzbert.de/

  

Offline Enioch

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Deuxième Ronde - Zweite Runde: DING DING




"The visible weakening of Great Britain during the Von Papen Wars period (early 1920s) led to overall instability in the international scene and in a de-polarisation of the diplomatic situation. Whereas Great Britain had, even after her sound defeat by Germany, served as a mighty economic bulwark and the 'Giant' of Europe, the loss of Ireland indicated that the feet of Albion may have been made of clay after all. Minor nations, who had tended to seek a potential alternative to the quickly rising Germany in Great Britain now were forced to reconsider their allegiances. Some sought to befriend the rising Power; some stuck to their guns and remained allied to the British Empire; some sought alternatives in Powers such as France, who had rekindled her ages-old feud with her Teutonic neighbour. The ideal of the Kerneuropa seemed to be hanging over the precipice, as new alliances were negotiated. Notably, the two traditional 'poles' of European diplomacy (the Anglophile and Germanophile bloc) were shaken to the core."

"During this period, the uncertainty that resulted from the fundamental upsetting of British power led to a significant reshuffling of the political landscape in Great Britain. With Ireland leaving the Crown officially in early 1924 (and promptly descending into a three-year civil war), British Unionism was considerably threatened - and its proponents reacted immediately. It is during this period that political movements such as the 'Great Idea' came back to the forefront, with political parties such as the National Democratic and Labour Party (NDLP) and the Labour Unionists (LU) attracting more and more voters."

"Germany, at the time, had her own problems[...]"


-Jeremy DeWiers PhD (Ox), The National Labour Movements before Mosley's Folly, Oxford: Blackwell 1989



With Great Britain in the midst of a national existential crisis, the German Admiralität celebrates the commissioning of the first G9-class Zerstörer in November 1923. Schwaben is almost ready to leave the docks (commissioning is planned for January) and a second bloc of G9s is laid down to further reinforce the German fleet. The performance of the prototypes is perfectly satisfactory. Some thought is given to upgrading the second line of G9s with more torpedo tubes, but the engineers quickly determine that, with their heavy primary armament, such a modification would make the G9s considerably overweight and cost them in speed and stability.



During the shakedown cruise of the G9, a Japanese spy is caught during a honeypot scheme to secure access to the blueprints of the new German Zerstörer. The resulting inquiry is badly handled by both the Admiralität and Streseman. Tensions with Japan rise; interestingly, Russia seems to support the Japanese. Military intelligence suspects that it may have been a joint scheme; or that Russia is just trying to capitalise on Germany's embarrassment.



The point is that, during the January commissioning of the Schwaben, tensions with France and Russia are as high as ever. Bismarck's nightmmare (a two-front war, against France and Russia simultaneously) seems to lie somewhere in the very near future. It is imperative that the two Powers be kept from formalising their support of each other; it is towards that goal that Streseman focuses his efforts.





R & D provides the Admiralität with designs for the new Wasserbomben, and the Piepers immediately begin receiving the new munitions.



February 1924: Russia, thanks to Streseman's efforts, has backed down, just a bit. Military Intelligence, on the other hand, reports that the French fleet is partially mobilising, bringing several of their reserve-ships to full active status.

Streseman (and the Admiralität) recommend calm. On the one hand, the French seem to be much more organised this time around: beginning training and mobilisation this early will guarantee that no ships will be deployed with untrained crews. On the other hand, however, the Marine Nationale remains a non-threat for the German Fleet (with the possible exception of the French submarine force). An overreaction at this point will only hasten the war, before the new Zerstörer are ready to contribute.



In response, von Papen proceeds to give an interview, in which he states his intention to mobilise all German ships in reserve, to counter French aggression.

The French are confused, and tensions remain stable, while their Intelligence seeks to make sense out of the German Chancellor's rantings. During that time, Hindenburg and Galster less-than-patiently try to explain to their Reichskanzler that Germany has no ships in reserve or mothballs. The entirety of the existing German Hochseeflotte is in active service.

Dummkopf.



A batch of 12 subs leaves the yards in March; even more are in production...



...while the Admiralität turns down a suggestion by the Americans to buy the formulas that the Yanks are employing on their armour hardening. Firstly: if you think Krupp will fail to provide us with properly hardened steel during the upcoming months, Amerikaner, you are woefully unfamiliar with the concept of Deutscher Stahl and everything that goes with it; secondly: we are about to embark on a tricky war, and our big armoured battlewagons have just left the slipways. Anything that would be using this technology is two-and-a-half years in the future; our priority right now is to gather up a nest egg, to get us through the war. We don't have the money to spare, sorry.



May 1924: and the German Ambassador to Greece is shot six times in Syntagma square, just in front of the Royal Palace. He is rushed to a hospital, where he will lie for two days; he will expire on the morning of the 25th of the month. His murderer is 27-year old Ioannis Mauromatis, a Law student of Greco-Serbian descent.

Germany is, of course, livid; and von Papen's polemic is near-hysterical. The Kaiser (being King Konstantine's brother-in-law), attempts to ease the situation through personal communication; thankfully, the Greco-Germanic alliance, which has secured the Rhodes oil fields for the Reich for almost a decade, now, survives the ordeal. The Kaiser vetoes von Papen's demands that German agents should be deployed to 'assist' with the Greek investigations; but the damage in the international scene has already taken place.

The French and Russians observe the German 'proposed interventionism' with horror. A few days of tense, powder-keg diplomacy follow, during which the Admiralität watches and waits...





See? Told ya, 'Muricans. German Steel is best steel.





This also looks brilliant, although quad turrets are still...too crazy for the Germans.



****.



Here we go again. Peace lasted for less than two years.

On the morning of the 3rd of June, 1924, France declares war. Tensions with Russia are one tick away from exploding into the faces of the Germans too.





And it is clear that the French know this and are counting on it.

During the first week of the war, their forces probe German positions twice, but stubbornly refuse to engage the German intercepting squadrons: they are buying time. They are waiting for the Russians to come in and assist; and until that time, they seek to preserve their ships.



Their plans go somewhat awry on the 7th of June, when a scouting force of three Mortier-class destroyers and a light cruiser attempt to sneak past Texel, utilising the early morning mists.



They are intercepted by old Bremen, escorted by the two brand-spanking-new Zerstörer G10 and S19. The Germans have only a brief contact window and they do not dare pursue the enemy under the very poor visibility conditions (who knows what the French might have lurking further back), but they still manage to score a torpedo hit on the enemy light cruiser.



It's a minor victory and an anticlimactic baptism of fire for the G9s, but it's a victory nonetheless.



At this point, the Admiralität scores a major intelligence success: observation zeppelins identify the French capital fleet massing in the northern Atlantic harbours. The French have emptied the Mediterranean of all capital ships.

Galster takes the opportunity, to utilise his obsolescent Schlachtkreuzer. In the Atlantic, the Von der Tann, Goeben, Moltke and Seydlitz are greatly outclassed by anything the French can field against them. But in the Mediterranean, they are bigger and badder than anything the Fromage can bring against them. The four old Valkyries are separated and sent north of the British Isles, on a long curving course to Gibraltar. From there, they are rebased in Sardinia and Alexandria, locking down the Mediterranean for good.

At the same time, R & D is experimenting with the new hardened alloys for better AP penetration caps...



...and designs for a superlight torpedo-armed Schnellboot are submitted for consideration. These new patrol craft can greatly assist the Piepers in their patrols!



July: first submarine reports come in.

It is a slaughter. With the French ports still open (Galster does not yet attempt to enforce a blockade), the U-Boote have prey to feast upon. That's 180k tons of merchant traffic sent to the bottom, in the most vicious month in submarine warfare history since the Anglo-German war.



The French strike back, sinking the Carsten near Helgoland.



...and putting six German merchantmen down. A valiant effort, for a bunch of garlic-chewers, but it cannot compare with German efficiency!



And their ASW ships are useless.





Their surface raiders also yield minimal results. With five German heavy cruisers standing by in the North Sea and with the G9s falling into regular patrols, the French ships have a very narrow window of opportunity to hunt down their prey.







Throughout July and August, this situation continues. Streseman is getting reports that the Russian army is mobilising; and several German Army Divisions are deployed in preparation on the eastern borders. Meanwhile, the reinforced French fortifications on the Western Front are giving the Germans problems.

The French Fleet adamantly refuses to engage the German forces - and Galster tightens the noose, establishing a blockade. The German Schlachtkreuzer in the Mediterranean have locked down the southern harbours; the Hochseeflotte blocks traffic in the north. The French now need to respond - or starve.





The German submarines now turn their attention to French fleet assets. The U-136 pounds a French minesweeper into submission with her 4-inch gun; and six merchantmen are sunk in opportunistic actions.



The French try to bite back: the submarine Mameli sinks the Greta in the Mediterranean...



...and on the 8th of August, the Corsaire sinks the RMS Scythia, a British liner.

870 dead.

Incompetent French.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT CONDEMNS THE FRENCH ATTACK ON A DEFENSELESS NEUTRAL LINER.

WE WOULD NEVER DO SOMETHING THIS DESPICABLE. ESPECIALLY NOT TO OUR DEAR FRIENDS, THE BRITISH.

VON PAPEN, STOP LAUGHING.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline crizza

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Good job Admiral Enioch von Tirpitz.
My playthrough foundered.
A first war against the french ended in white peace, a second sent them running... then the russians popped up. I estimated I could beat them, they had 4 BBs against my 12... but underestimating their BC force and the cramped baltic sea saw me defeated... whenever I moved against them, my BBs were outnumbered at least 4 to 1, with their BCs featuring 15in guns, and even if I bloodied them, I got my BBs got torped -.-
Peace treaty saw me limited to 10k ships, so I pumped out DDs, subs and CLs.
When I could finally build my 52k 16inch BBs, as in 16in guns and 16in all or nothing armored battlewagons, my two modern BBs were estimated against 26 british BBs...
Granted, while declining battle, my subs reaped a fearsome tally but still...

Oh, an unrelated question: I researched AoN... but it only showed up on AI designed BBs.
I had a good design, but whenever I tried to modify it to incorporate AoN it didn't show up.
And before you ask, I only designed, but never built 'em...
Check out my blog:

http://geo.schulzbert.de/

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Quick response for now, crizza:

To get AoN working, the following must be in effect:

  • Armor scheme for the ship must be 'flat deck on top of belt'
  • No Belt Extended (BE) or Deck Extended (DE) armour must be selected (set them to 0)
  • Belt must be normal (not narrow)
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
All the Unterseeboot memes





“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
After a long time of reading these threads I have slowly started to understand the japanese manga ship memes but there's an extra level of weirdness to the german ones which my mind can't penetrate just yet.

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
It is impossible to penetrate krupp stahl German memes.

'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Accept the memes, absorb the memes, become one with the memes, enjoy the memes.


I wasn't sure how good german engineering was before, but now I fully understand.


I decided to give the game a try myself, started as glorious nippon with historical budget yesterday, finished the game at 1942 today. Games like these tend to be catnip to me.
A tl;dr, started war with france with deutschland as my ally, took all of france's stuff while germany blockaded.
Ended up fighting the russians three times, took all their stuff.
Went to war with the UK, Germany joined in on their side, war ended in a few months with a white peace, only saw a few german destroyers.
Very long war with Germany after, couldn't really get to one another so I just outlasted them with subs and took their colonial stuff in reach.
Had all these big botes with big guns, really wanted to have a big fight at least once. Went to war with the UK again, but this time I had fromage and pasta allies. UK moved a lot of ships my way, but ended up declining each battle, and the battles that did happen were always with underage boats. The brits surrendered in a few months times because 3v1 apparantly wasn't to their liking. It was pretty awful tbh.
I ended up taking all their small holdings after and called it quits.

I really don't like this nonsense of completely random battlelines. I mean, https://ibin.co/3iDmQ223xUMA.png this **** kept happening, over and over. I've got really big ships exactly for that purpose, but no, lets keep sending two destroyers that can't ****ing reach the target.
Unexpected battle! Random minesweeper runs into two enemy destroyers and dies. Okay. Stop wasting my time, ****.

Overall do think its a really neat game, but it could do with a bit of... streamlining to cut down on the more time wasting aspects of it and to update that ancient ui.
And by jove, if you have big boats, allow the player to bloody use them whenever he wants.

I'll just continue enjoying Enioch's posts from here on.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
P.S. Battleships with torpedoes are the bestest thing forever. Put tubes on all the BB's
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]

I really don't like this nonsense of completely random battlelines. I mean, https://ibin.co/3iDmQ223xUMA.png this **** kept happening, over and over. I've got really big ships exactly for that purpose, but no, lets keep sending two destroyers that can't ****ing reach the target.

>sends his DD shipwaifus on a raiding mission.
>gives the order for them to move at flank speed.
>over hundreds of miles.
>is surprised when he runs out of fuel.
>is ****ty admiral.

Spoon.

Spoon y r u so crap?

Spoon. Mate. "Cruise speed" is called that for a reason. Because you select it when you're cruising and you drop your fuel consumption to ridiculous levels.

Flank spid iz 4 battel Spoon.

Shamefur disopuray!

#weaboonoobbashing

(This hilarity, of course, does nothing to detract from the validity of your points re: random battles. All I can say is, if you're actively looking for a fight, consult the strategic map as often as you can, find where the enemy keeps their biggest ships, and send your own capitals in the same sector. Usually that helps.)
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
I think you misunderstood, can't reach the target with their main guns. (I made sure to include the gunrange in the screenshot so it was self evident what my point here was :p) Fuel wasn't the issue. Never has been, haven't had a ship run out of fuel even once.
https://ibin.co/3iHMithQOYpT.png because this stuff was happening frequently.

(This hilarity, of course, does nothing to detract from the validity of your points re: random battles. All I can say is, if you're actively looking for a fight, consult the strategic map as often as you can, find where the enemy keeps their biggest ships, and send your own capitals in the same sector. Usually that helps.)
I was activately looking for a fight! It's not my fault that the game just kept deciding on sending a few destroyers at a time while the forces in the area said something like 2BB 6BC 4CA 30DD  vs  6BB 4BC 3CL 15DD. Over and over again.
It's dumb.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Germany - [Image Heavy!]
Objections withdrawn, that's actually retarded. In my defense, I thought that the circle was the fuel range circle not the gun range one.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)