[Luis Dias]

Actually, if you read the text of said video, you'll see clearly that the Collossus was designed to maintain peace and security, to end conflicts "swiftly and decisively", once "deployed", and to defend us from any shivan threat "for generations to come".

While I agree with NGTM that the Collossus is intended to breakthrough enemy barriers and win things "swiftly" in the manner he described, unfortunately, we never saw the Collossus doing just that. Either it sneaks upon cruisers and destroyers by surprise, or it stands as a blockade against enemy warships.

Perhaps it would be cool for someone to build a small campaign within FS2 timespan, where we would see the Collossus doing just what NGTM said it was meant to do to the NTF. I do not recall the entire chronology, so I don't even know if such kinds of missions even fit in the canon. But it would be cool. Some kind of luring of an NTF cruisers/destroyer armada and then *bam* enter the collossus right in the middle of the NTF fleet and wipe them all out.

[NGTM-1R]

The Colossus is pretty clearly stated to have performed this task at least once, at the Polaris/EP node. Beyond that, not sure.

[Marcov]

Just did a mission involving the Colossus with no working engines and engaging seven Orion-class destroyers at almost every angle. Each Orion would be able to fire its starboard BGreen and some of its broadside TerSlashes, and simply didn't move (probably due to the fact that I ordered them to "Stay Still").

This mission was tested twice. For the first time, the Colossus obliterated all of them and ended up with 16% or 19% (I don't remember very well) hull integrity. The second test, which I have pictures of in "A celebration of FreeSpace" (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=25406.new#new), the Colly destroyed all 7 of them with 7% hull integrity.

I'll post the Events data for this here, you can view the rest in said thread.

[Scotty]

Soo.... what killed the other five Orions?

[Hades]

Soo.... what killed the other five Orions?

Getting hit by beams alone won't count towards a kill for anything in default FS2, so the first two probably got hit by a blob or something that's not a beam while the other three were only hit by beams.

[Scotty]

Then... how did the Colossus only get 98% credit for one of the kills?

[Dilmah G]

Friendly fire between the Orions?

[Marcov]

Possibly a debris hit?

Friendly fire between the Orions?

Which would only probably happen if the unfortunate one was at 2% or 1% hull integrity, since the only thing that might hit it would be a TerSlash.

[headdie]

I suspect the all round field of fire is so that when it is engaging the lucifer/other(super)destroyer it is able to defend itself if someone tries to take advantage of it being committed by jumping it with another destroyer

That's like saying the Sath was designed by idiots.

nope, the sath follows the typical FS2 Shivan format of being node breakers and other frontal assaults.  Its defense is to decisively end any engagement it starts and jump before the enemy can hit it with significant forces in vulnerable areas

[Marcov]

Which means that most of the Shivan shipbuilders are idiots.

[MatthTheGeek]

Just look how Shivan shipbuilding excelled at instagibbing the Colossus and you will realize how wrong that statement is.

[Marcov]

...and just look at how poor the GTVA tactics are...read my post in "Question about alternate FS2 campaign". You could literally stop a Sathanas by sending out a single Hatshepsut destroyer and a few bomber wings.

[Sololop]

Except a Sathanas has more fighters and bombers than a comparable GTVA Fleet I would bet.

Edit: I bet a single Sathanas could completely obliterate a whole Vasudan battlegroup without firing a shot from its BFReds if it just decided to launch its entire fighter/bomber wings from its hangar.

Quote from wiki:

"Sathanas is still more than able to defend itself and project offensive power via the many hundreds of fighters and bombers it carries in its cavernous hangar."

While the Hatshepsut carries quote "Not known. Presumably similar or superior to Typhon (30 wings)" which is about 120 (thinking 4 fighters per wing)

A battlegroup would have I would think probably 1-2 destroyers, so about 240 fighters and bombers.

Edit2: Though if a battlegroup had say, four or more destroyers, the fighters and bombers would be more equal I would think, plus now the beam fire would really be scaled up. I say this because if a Sathanas launched ALL of its compliment at once, the sheer amount of bombers could probably take down a destroyer within a minute.

[Paladin327]

i always thought the colossus had a similar design philosophy to the corvettes of the game. corvettes are designed to kill cruisers and the colly was designed to kill destroyers, and since the lucifer was a destroyer...

[Mars]

Except a Sathanas has more fighters and bombers than a comparable GTVA Fleet I would bet.

Edit: I bet a single Sathanas could completely obliterate a whole Vasudan battlegroup without firing a shot from its BFReds if it just decided to launch its entire fighter/bomber wings from its hangar.

Quote from wiki:

"Sathanas is still more than able to defend itself and project offensive power via the many hundreds of fighters and bombers it carries in its cavernous hangar."

While the Hatshepsut carries quote "Not known. Presumably similar or superior to Typhon (30 wings)" which is about 120 (thinking 4 fighters per wing)

A battlegroup would have I would think probably 1-2 destroyers, so about 240 fighters and bombers.

Edit2: Though if a battlegroup had say, four or more destroyers, the fighters and bombers would be more equal I would think, plus now the beam fire would really be scaled up. I say this because if a Sathanas launched ALL of its compliment at once, the sheer amount of bombers could probably take down a destroyer within a minute.

GTVA point defenses and fighters are quite a bit better I think. Wingmen can usually take down 3-4 fighters before going down.

[Sololop]

GTVA point defenses and fighters are quite a bit better I think. Wingmen can usually take down 3-4 fighters before going down.

True, we must consider that. It's always a weird area talking about Shivan fighters sucking, as to the Lore in-game, they are astonishingly fast, agile and powerful craft. But in-game, they suck, to be honest.

[Mars]

The fighters themselves are excellent (with a couple of exceptions) - but retail AI, and the quality of their weapons (the Shivans don't have a laser more powerful than the Prometheus R) are what hold them back. If you gave a Dragon Kaysers, and Fury AI there'd be no fight.

[Marcov]

Except a Sathanas has more fighters and bombers than a comparable GTVA Fleet I would bet.

Edit: I bet a single Sathanas could completely obliterate a whole Vasudan battlegroup without firing a shot from its BFReds if it just decided to launch its entire fighter/bomber wings from its hangar.

As I said in the other thread, the Hattie just needs to knock out the Sathanas' fighterbay before it gets to launch a large amount of bombers with its 2 BVas'es.

The fighters themselves are excellent (with a couple of exceptions) - but retail AI, and the quality of their weapons (the Shivans don't have a laser more powerful than the Prometheus R) are what hold them back. If you gave a Dragon Kaysers, and Fury AI there'd be no fight.

I've recently been playing at Hard. I just feel that NTF fighters are BETTER. They're just more dangerous. It may have been mission design, but it seems to me that NTF fighters can strafe you far better than Shivvies can...(except Dragons, that is).

[Mars]

I've recently been playing at Hard. I just feel that NTF fighters are BETTER. They're just more dangerous. It may have been mission design, but it seems to me that NTF fighters can strafe you far better than Shivvies can...(except Dragons, that is).

The perception might be there, but it simply isn't the case. A wall of Hercs can put out a lot of fire, so something like Feint! Parry! Riposte! the superiority of the enemy fighters is all mission design. Prometheus Rs are better than nearly every Shivan weapon.

On the other hand the actual fighters of the Shivans are far better. The Mara and the Hercules have very comparable damage resistance, but the Mara is more maneuverable than the Perseus. The Mara that you fly in Into The Lions Den is not actually that much better than the original.

As you increast the difficulty, the damage of enemy weapons approaches their actual values. That's probably why Terran fighters seem superior to you now that you've moved to hard. In insane, taking even a couple of Prom R volleys form a Herc in a Myrmidon is likely to damage you pretty badly (the Myrmidon isn't a bad fighter until Hard). Shivan weapons on the other hand simply don't do as much damage.

There are Shivan fighters like the Basilisk or Aeshema, which are simply terrible, but an Aesteroth, Mara, Dragon, Shiatan, Manticore, and so are are all forces to be reckoned with when you give it half-decent weapons and AI.

[Mars]

As I said in the other thread, the Hattie just needs to knock out the Sathanas' fighterbay before it gets to launch a large amount of bombers with its 2 BVas'es.

Sorry, double post.
I don't think it would be quite that simple. Have we ever seen a fighterbay successfully knocked out of commission in Freespace?