Author Topic: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)  (Read 13674 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
I am about to buy a joystick and it is down to the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick or the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X Flight Stick.  I like the Thrustmaster the most right now but the fact that it's for PS3 as well and that it has PS3 button symbols on it kind of turn me off :wtf:.  Can anyone vouch for the Thrustmaster?  I like the Logitech and it is closer to what I was used to 15 years ago when I played X wing vs. Tie Fighter.  I just don't know much about joysticks and would like some more experienced opinions.  One more thing is that idk if I need the extra thrust arm that the Thrustmaster comes with.  Help please.  Thanks
.

 

Offline Alex Heartnet

  • 28
  • Loli with a hammer
    • Minecraft
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Thrustmaster.  DEFINITELY.

I liked my logitech 3D pro up until I got my thrustmaster.  Now I won't even touch the old logitech anymore.

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Is the second attached thruster part to it necessary?  I have heard that people get frustrated using HOTAS joysticks for freespace because you do so much accelerating and deceleration.   

 

Offline Sushi

  • Art Critic
  • 211
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Thrustmaster.  DEFINITELY.

I liked my logitech 3D pro up until I got my thrustmaster.  Now I won't even touch the old logitech anymore.

I tried the T-Flight HOTAS X for a month or so. I ended up reselling it because I couldn't stand the massive deadzone. I would actually NOT recommend this stick: as far as HOTAS goes, it's hard to beat the price, but you get what you pay for.

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
what kind of joystick would you suggest for freespace 2 then?  I realize the deadzone is a dealbreaker for many people.  I don't have the money or the interest in any joystick over 50 dollars.  I just want something to play with that I won't have to fight with or get and realize it has a major flaw like a huge deadzone or something that would make freespace 2 really hard to play.

 

Offline Al-Rik

  • 27
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Most Joysticks (even non-HOTAS) need both hands to operate:
One hand at the stick, one hand at the base of the stick to avoid slipping.

So if you want to buy a Joystick, take a look at the Buttons you can reach with your left hand.
Most HOTAS Joysticks offer a lot of Buttons for the left, so HOTAS is nice, even in a game were you don't change the velocity that much.

Thrustmaster HOTAS:
I have used it for Freespace and Battlefield 2 / Battlefield 2142 First Strike (a Star Wars Mod with lot of Fighterbattles ) about 2 Years.
The main Benefit of this stick is a Balanced Lever in the Throttle. This Lever is in fact a 5th axis:
Joystick: X & Y axis (Yaw + Pitch ) + Twist Handle ( Axis for Rolling )
Thruster: 1s axis (Thrust) + 2nd axis ( Optional for Rolling )

You can chose to use the Lever instead of the Twist Handle to roll your ship. It's much more intuitive than the twist handle.
It's  better than Rudder Pedals (tested in BF 2142 First Strike) , because it works quicker (only a press with the fingertips, instead of pressing the pedals until end ). 

I later changed to a Saitek X 52pro, and while it lacks the Lever it's much more precise than the Thrustmaster.
Picking out Turrets in Freespace is definitely easier with the Saitek X52.

If you want a Saitek, check out the Aviator.
Avoid the Cyborg Sticks from Saitek, some of my clanmates have made a bad experience with the durability of those things.
X52 and X52pro don't have many differences beyond the look, so if you find a X52 in the range of your budget get it.

 

Offline Sushi

  • Art Critic
  • 211
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
what kind of joystick would you suggest for freespace 2 then?  I realize the deadzone is a dealbreaker for many people.  I don't have the money or the interest in any joystick over 50 dollars.  I just want something to play with that I won't have to fight with or get and realize it has a major flaw like a huge deadzone or something that would make freespace 2 really hard to play.

I just went back to KB + Mouse. It works very well for me, YMMV.

This helps in the (rare) case where constant turning becomes annoying:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74435.0

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
I have only been playing freespace for a couple days now and i am completely hooked but I can not justify buying a 80-100 dollar joystick.  I am hearing mixed reviews for the Thrustmaster.  Is the dead zone a bad thing and how bad is it on the Thrustmaster compared to other joysticks?  I guess I could get it but the Logitech seems better imo because it doesn't have ps3 controls on the buttons and because it is just a joystick as opposed to a joystick and a throttle with the same amount of buttons.  I anticipate having to use the keyboard still for a few things and having a 2 part joystick and a keyboard sounds almost like overkill for controls.  I guess I need more opinions from people lol.

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Joystick thread  Joystick thread  Joystick thread ... yeah, you're not the first to ask this question :P

Of course the plethora of joysticks available is subject to change, but a thread from even a year back is still quite valid. The three linked above all date 2010 or 2011, so you may be able to distill some useful information from there. When I did this for myself a couple years back I ended up buying a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. Quite pleased with it, though I'm not an intensive user.

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Yeah I realize there have been other joystick posts and I have read pretty much all of them.  But I have some specific personalized questions that I wanted to ask, that's all.  I am pretty close to getting the Logitech extreme 3d Pro based on some pretty high ratings, the price, the 12 buttons, and the fact that it doesn't have PS3 controls printed all over it  :ick:.  Any more advice about either of the two joysticks that I mentioned would be greatly appreciated though.  Thanks.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
I've recently bought the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and I'm quite happy with it.  I've generally used cheaper joysticks, so perhaps I don't know what I'm missing by not getting a full HOTAS setup.

Just a word on the 12 buttons though, I find that 2 of them on the base (11 & 12 I think) are somewhat difficult to use, I can't figure out a way to hold my hands that I can easily press the buttons without having to move my thumb off the throttle - and I *need* that throttle :)  Still - that's a minor nitpick, 10 buttons plus another 4 (equivalent) on the hat is plenty for my needs.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
There is so much to consider when you buy a joystick.
Deadzone (any, let alone a big one!) is the WORST possible problem to have on a joy though.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline jg18

  • A very happy zod
  • 210
  • can do more than spellcheck
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Most Joysticks (even non-HOTAS) need both hands to operate:
One hand at the stick, one hand at the base of the stick to avoid slipping.
:wtf: How would you play if you need both hands to use the stick? Unless the stick has enough buttons and such that you can use it as a standalone controller...

Thoughts: (disclaimer: I've never tried either of the sticks you mentioned)

If you're planning on playing for quite a while (more than several months; note the many mods and TCs released and in progress), and willing to pay slightly outside your price range, the CH Flightstick Pro is currently available for $57 on Amazon. CH Products has an excellent reputation for the build quality/durability of their products and their customer service/support, but the Flightstick Pro's big disadvantages are that it has relatively few buttons (although enough for space sims IMO) and that it doesn't have a "twist" for the roll axis like the Logitech stick does (I improvise by using the hat switch). Their more expensive sticks have a lot more buttons and such but are well outside your price range, they also don't have a twist, and for me at least, they're too big for my hands. Another nice plus of the Flightstick Pro is that DOSBox (a DOS emulator that Good Old Games uses a lot) has built-in support for it, so if you ever decide to get, say, Descent from GOG, setup is really easy, and the stick really does make Descent a lot more fun.

But between the two sticks you're considering, I'd go with the Logitech one, for the reasons you mentioned (PS3 control images would be a turn-off to me, too ;)), and I figure the fewer features it has (stick vs HOTAS), the fewer things that can break. :) My impression from the reviews is that Logitech's quality control is iffy, so be sure to hold onto the receipts/packaging in case you get a defective one and have to exchange it.

Honestly, when it comes to cheap joysticks, you probably get what you pay for, in the long run at least. But the Logitech stick sounds like it's what you're looking for. Just be aware that it's unlikely to continue working well in the long run (or possibly even short run).

Other thoughts: (don't you just love unsolicited advice? :D)

If you've just been playing for a couple days, you might want to wait a bit -- say, a week or two or more -- before deciding whether to shell out the money for a joystick. A lot of people are happy with just a keyboard or maybe keyboard and mouse. I have a HOTAS (CH Flightstick Pro + CH Pro Throttle) and I still use the keyboard from time to time.

Hope that helps.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 05:40:47 pm by jg18 »

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Thanks a lot.  I did end up buying the Logitech for the reasons I listed.  I read a ton of reviews and it ranged from people having their joystick for 4+ years and loving it to some people who had to replace theirs twice in a couple months.  I will save my receipt and all that but it seems like there were mostly positive reviews and I don't plan on wrenching my joystick around like I'm trying stab someone.  As long as I take care of it, I'm not worried.  I have only played freespace for maybe 4 days-ish now but I loooved X wing vs tie fighter when it came out 15 years ago and ran my joystick to the ground playing that game.  I have been yearning for some high quality joystick action for a while and I don't think I'm jumping the gun.  In a year if I am still playing Freespace or have moved on to flight sims or other games (Battlefield, X wing vs. Tie Fighter) I will probably end up upgrading to the Saitek X52. :pimp:

 

Offline Davros

  • 29
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
I think your missing a hell of a lot not playing freespace 2 with a forcefeedback stick

 
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
I guess I'll find that out when I get the joystick.   I have heard a lot of people complain that force feedback makes it harder to play and it isn't that fun but it's probably personal preference.  If I were to hypothetically get a force feedback joystick, what would u recommend?

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Logitech WingMan Force 3D. 7 buttons, POV HAT and a throttle slider. It's old, but it's one of the best joysticks I had. I've only stopped using it because I moved to a full HOTAS (complete with rudder pedals). Though Force Feedback can be a great feature, it's also annoying from time to time.

 

Offline WALLY

  • 25
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Logitech WingMan Force 3D. 7 buttons, POV HAT and a throttle slider. It's old, but it's one of the best joysticks I had. I've only stopped using it because I moved to a full HOTAS (complete with rudder pedals). Though Force Feedback can be a great feature, it's also annoying from time to time.

I have that same joystick, but have not been able to use it because when Vista came out, Logitech said they couldnĀ“t produce a driver.
Now I have recently got a new laptop, with windows  7.
Is there any way to get the wingman to work with windows 7  ?
Otherwise I will also be looking at buying the  newer  Extreme 3D Pro.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 04:34:36 pm by WALLY »

 

Offline Al-Rik

  • 27
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
Most Joysticks (even non-HOTAS) need both hands to operate:
One hand at the stick, one hand at the base of the stick to avoid slipping.
:wtf: How would you play if you need both hands to use the stick? Unless the stick has enough buttons and such that you can use it as a standalone controller...
Well, with lot's of buttons on the stick so you can use them as standalone controller. :D

The Logitech has 6 Buttons at the base, the Thrustmaster 4 in the Handle of the Thruster, the Saitek has at the Thruster:
In the handle
5 Buttons
1 Scrollwheel  ( use as Mouse Wheel or 2 Buttons )
1 Wheel
1 Slider
1 Ministick ( Mouse Simulation, useful for menus )
1 4 Way Hat ( 4 Buttons or POV )

Oh, and 2 Wheels/Buttons at the base ;)

The Joystick itself has at the stick:
1 Trigger ( = 2 Buttons, pull it half 1st button, pull it full 2nd Button )
Pinky Switch
3 Buttons for the Thumb
2 POV ( possible to use as 4 Buttons each )

at the base:
3 Switches with 2 Buttons each

If the game doesn't support that much buttons, it's possible to use a software from Saitek to bind Keys to a button.
It's also possible to use a freeware 3rd Party software like Joy2key to do that.

So in most situations it's possible to use only the Joystick.

I use the POV Hats for Targeting ( next attacker/previous ship, next/previous sub system ) (next bomb/previous bomb, next friendly ship...) the switches at the base for ESW...
Sliders and Wheels I don't use.


And most of the HOTAS System are very heavy or it's possible to fixate them with screws or suction caps, so they don't slip away like cheaper Joysticks ;)

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: I'm stuck between two joysticks. HELP PLEASE :)
I've never had any problems with Force 3D slipping, maybe because it's heavy and requires quite delicate handling.