Author Topic: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable  (Read 4288 times)

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Offline Phantom Hoover

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FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
There's an issue with WiH and the recent builds of the SCP that result in Karunas rapidly taking damage from their own weapons, which makes some missions that require escorting them disproportionately hard. The fix for this is simple:

1. Download this file, containing a fixed model for the Karuna: Download (Current Dev version in SVN - Darius)
2. Create a directory called 'data' in your WiH mod directory (i.e. blueplanet2) and inside that create a 'models' directory.
3. Unpack the fixed model, KarunaMk1.pof, into the models directory.

This should stop the Karunas blowing themselves up before the GTVA can get to them.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 10:00:56 am by Darius »

 

Offline Kobrar44

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
There was a code solution once
http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=2664
But it seems not much have changed.
Oh guys, use that [ url ][ img ][ /img ][ /url ] :/

 

Offline Phantom Hoover

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
I understand that that issue was only part of the problem; the Karuna's model radius is also far too large, and there was an LOD alignment bug of some sort. In any case, a day-old build of 3.6.13 from SVN still has treacherous UEF gunnery crews, so I think this fix is still needed.

 

Offline SaltyWaffles

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Thank you so much! I'll give it a try.
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
I understand that that issue was only part of the problem; the Karuna's model radius is also far too large, and there was an LOD alignment bug of some sort. In any case, a day-old build of 3.6.13 from SVN still has treacherous UEF gunnery crews, so I think this fix is still needed.

Fixing the Karuna's model radius restored the as-intended balance of WiH.  The patch on the other hand makes a change to shockwave damage calculations to make it more accurate - the downside is that this will also affect balance, just in other direction (i.e. Karuna's would survive longer because they're taking less self-damage than "normal").  Because of this, I'm not going to follow up on the code patch until after 3.6.14 is out :)
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Offline SaltyWaffles

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Okay, one thing to note (may be unrelated): after dying, Karunas (and other ships, which is what makes me think this may not be related) have their debris chunks spinning like Sonic dreams he could do on a good day. And yes, they do this almost every time. The rate of spin is almost instantly determined, and is usually extremely high. The debris chunks are usually non-collidable, and can be destroyed themselves with enough firepower, though they usually move away from the point of origin too fast to nab many of them.

Also, spinning Solaris of death (an alive one, actually; likely stemming from an entirely different issue about docking and 'Does Not Move' not meshing well with 'Guardianed' and '`K') in spaz fashion, with a speed comparable to Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing (reverse) turns out to be the true Great Destroyer, not the Shivans.
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Most of the subobjects have a radius of 0 or close to that, which is what's causing the issue.  Open up KarunaMk1.pof in PCS2, select each subobject, and reset max radius.

EDIT: I've taken the liberty of uploading a fixed version.

EDIT2: use link in first post.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 02:38:40 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline Phantom Hoover

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
There was also a bug I had where I couldn't dock with the fighterbay without noclipping; does resetting the subobject radii fix that as well?

5-second EDIT: Battuta has confirmed that this is the case on IRC, Aesaar's fix should be bug-free.

 

Offline The Dagger

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Ok, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here, 'cause I downloaded this model and for the life of me I can't make it work! :banghead:

I downloaded KarunaMk1.pof, and put it into the /models folder.
I fired FSO to see if I could finally beat WiH. I decided to restart the campaign to be more prepare for Delenda Est.
After some crashes, I loaded an RC 8 debug build 'cause I couldn't even load the introduction mission.
I had the Diomedes old table/new model glitch. I fixed that. But then the debug build said two textures where missing: altan_orde-trans and uefeagle2-trans. So I went into bp2-visual1.vp, extracted altan_orde.dds and eaglelogo.dds, made a copy of those, renamed them altan_orde-trans.dds and uefeagle2-trans.dds and put them in the /maps folder.
Next I realize the pof had no MOI, so I copy the MOI values from the old KarunaMk1.pof.

Now I am perfectly capable of loading the introduction without debug saying anything but the Karuna's rotator isn't rotating.
Not even in the F3 lab. It's not a game-breaking thing, but it's annoying.  :sigh:

Maybe I should just delete everything, redownload it and start from skratch just to be sure, but I wanted to see if there's another option.

PS: How should I upload a .log file? the posting system tells me I'll surpass the 5k characters limit if I pasted in my post

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
This is nuts, we really have to do an official patch.

 

Offline Phantom Hoover

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Use a pastebin, like... well, pastebin to post the log without clogging up the forums.

 

Offline The Dagger

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Thanks, here's the log

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
The Karuna is angry because you made it get a makeover instead of loving it the way it was.  So now it's getting back at us by being really passive-aggressive.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
I am working on Delenda Est right now and it feels a little ****ed up. Could anyone who's played it recently tell me on what difficulty setting and how it went for them? I'm specifically interested in the health levels of the frigates, and in whether you were able to take out the whole Carthage screen before the Katana and AO jumped in.

 

Offline Darius

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Just as an addition: the final stage where the second line of frigates is engaging the Carthage seems to have been made playable again.

 

Offline Cyborg17

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
I played it with the original fix model from this thread on Medium.  The mission went normally until I couldn't dock with the Indus at the end.  If I remember correctly, Katana and AO were about 30 average, and I am not a great player.  Not that the mission is necessarily easy, since I've played it a bunch of times, but it is a lot closer to being balanced.

 

Offline Black_Yoshi1230

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
I am working on Delenda Est right now and it feels a little ****ed up. Could anyone who's played it recently tell me on what difficulty setting and how it went for them? I'm specifically interested in the health levels of the frigates, and in whether you were able to take out the whole Carthage screen before the Katana and AO jumped in.

Did it on Easy difficulty on .14 RC8, I basically had to resort to Beta 1 and 2 doing half of my dirty work on the second anti-corvette phase (on any build, I had to tell them, take out the forward beams on one of them as soon as the Carthage launches its second fighter screen, you gotta love plot immunity).

MUCH more playable now, and the Karunae didn't die as easily. However, there were one or two stray wings hanging around before the second strike package rolled in (earlier on RC5 and 6, I was able to scratch the whole air screen), making me fly near the Katana to get the harpooning Hercs off my back. Most of the frigates were able to get out with around 15 to 40%, and sometimes, I'm lucky to scratch one of the big ships of the Carthage's battlegroup, something I NEVER got to pull off earlier. The corvettes still spat out VERY rapid flak (the ROF was much more than any other mod I've played or stock FS2 on Easy/Medium), which made even Very Easy somewhat unbearable at times.

Overall, it still felt too much like having to rely on pure memorization. Probably because I've played the mission about forty times and wasted three weeks trying to get it right (six times, I got it, but the game crashed on me, before I found a workaround).

edit: one time when the Imperieuse jumped in (is there a stop-engine function for the player when that happens or something?), I got stuck in the Altan Orde and couldn't get out.

I played it with the original fix model from this thread on Medium.  The mission went normally until I couldn't dock with the Indus at the end. 

Yeah, previously, you could get in the Karuna's fighterbay and see it (door, docking clamps, landing control interior). Now it looks like they closed it with a bay door.
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Offline SaltyWaffles

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
Not sure if this is still helpful or not, but having used this model quite a bit, I can confirm that the rotator subsystem does not rotate--though I think it *can* be made to with a specific FRED SEXP in-mission (or repeating the SEXP? can't remember).

The figherbay is also closed/blocked; in order to dock with the Indus at the end of The Plunder, I had to fly around the ship's outside to scrape against the closest part of the hull's exterior to the fighterbay subsystem. I could not get close enough, at any angle, by flying down the center/nose of the Karuna like normal. In the POF file, for SpecialPoints, most of the subsystems aren't even there. The fighterbay is absent, along with engines (and others), but curiously there are two new reactor Special Points (top-center of engine section of ship, bottom-center too).

Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline Phantom Hoover

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
You were using the latest fix version that Aesaar posted? It should resolve those issues.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: FIX - Karunas self-destructing, making some missions unplayable
SaltyWaffles is correct.  Mine was based off the one previously in the first post, and having actually checked the data for it (only looked at subobject radius before) I can confirm that the rotator doesn't spin.  The fighterbay entry issue is because there's an actual wall blocking entry to the internal hangar on the model itself (subobject fbdoora).  The fighterbay and other subsystems aren't in the special points list because it's the subobjects themselves that work as subsystems.

Oh, this model really, really hates us.  I'll see if I can fix this.

EDIT: Done.  Deleted door subobject and removed $name=Centrifuge from rotatora subobject properties, which prevented it from spinning.  New download here.  I don't have time to play a mission, but I'd appreciate it if people could check that all works as intended.

EDIT2: use link in first post.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 02:38:50 am by Aesaar »