[sunnyB]

Just got done playing BP: Age of Aquirus and liking the new GTD Raynor.

Also got done looking at the specs of that ship and it's nearly as big as the GTI Hades.

Would the Raynor steamroll the GTI Hades since it's 50 years newer than the Hades?

[BritishShivans]

Considering the ridiculous disparity in technology and given what the Lucifer did in AoA, while it might be sort of a close match, I very much doubt the Hades is as capable of pulling out and repairing itself as the Lucifer is. If the Raynor goes on the offensive and approaches this smartly, there's not really that much that the Hades can do.

If strikecraft complements also factor into this, the Hades is even more ****ed than what it already was. I don't think the Hades carries much in the way of strikecraft, and the wording here implies this is snatching the Hades from Silent Threat and plopping it near a Erebus/Raynor.

[Lorric]

If it's a straight one on one, the Hades has the Lucifer beams on it and about 5.5X the hitpoints of the Raynor. It would crush the Raynor.

[Phantom Hoover]

The Hades' subsystems are also notoriously vulnerable to stray beam fire. In terms of raw firepower alone the Erebus ('Raynor' is soooo 2012!) has a pretty huge advantage, and when you factor its vastly greater tactical flexibility it's so far ahead it's not even funny.

[General Battuta]

Just got done playing BP: Age of Aquirus and liking the new GTD Raynor.

Also got done looking at the specs of that ship and it's nearly as big as the GTI Hades.

Would the Raynor steamroll the GTI Hades since it's 50 years newer than the Hades?

Crossover battles are never very interesting unless you decide which universe's rule set you're playing in. If you just booted up FRED2 and ctrl-clicked it'd come down to table stats. If you give both ships their full capabilities in a developed tactical framework, an Erebus will wipe the floor with the Hades - in most contexts the Atreus has orders of magnitude more effective hit points, never mind its electronics suite, tactical capabilities, and air wing.

[Spoon]

B-but... the Hades has 99 wings of loki's...

[Hades]

I WIN

[BritishShivans]

Of course you'd win. 

[Trivial Psychic]

Shouldn't this thread be relocated?

[Lorric]

Shouldn't this thread be relocated?

Ah yes, our OP is new to HLP. General Freespace Discussion is the best place for this.

[General Battuta]

Shouldn't this thread be relocated?

I'll ping someone to move it to Blue Planet.

[Scotty]

Done.

[Aesaar]

If it's a straight one on one, the Hades has the Lucifer beams on it and about 5.5X the hitpoints of the Raynor. It would crush the Raynor.

Battuta said everything that needs to be said, but just for reference: In BP, Lucifer beams are just LReds.

[Goober5000]

Which of the three Hades classes are we talking about?

Silent Threat - 800k hitpoints, 2 Shivan Super Lasers (equivalent to the SD Lucifer)

Silent Threat: Reborn - 800k hitpoints, 5 SSLBeams

FreeSpace 2 - 400k hitpoints, 2 BGreens

[qwadtep]

given what the Lucifer did in AoA

Had to resort to a war of attrition because the Orestes kept beating it?

The Erebus would walk all over the GTI's bootleg copy.

[General Battuta]

It really does come down to what set of rules you want to play by. You can come up with situations where the Hades wins (nobody maneuvers, table stats only, Erebus out of pulse cannon range, Erebus power grid nerfed down to FS1 tech levels) but they don't really reflect the capabilities of the combatants - it's kind of like saying 'Arleigh Burke vs. Bismarck, daylight, 1 mile range'.

The Hades is a really really powerful ship for its timeframe, but it doesn't have the capabilities required to play in the same ballpark as the Erebus. They're operating in two very different tactical contexts. Which is pretty cool! It's neat that the BP ship depends on the stuff BP tends to care about - complex systems, electronic warfare, active armor, maneuvering, sophisticated AI, air wing - and the Hades depends on the stuff traditional FS tends to care about, like huge beams and loads of HP.

[Lorric]

The Orestes is the one being referred to as the OP clearly states it's from Aquarius. So it doesn't have any of the fancy stuff from later on.

Which of the three Hades classes are we talking about?

Silent Threat - 800k hitpoints, 2 Shivan Super Lasers (equivalent to the SD Lucifer)

Silent Threat: Reborn - 800k hitpoints, 5 SSLBeams

FreeSpace 2 - 400k hitpoints, 2 BGreens

We know it's not the FS2 one as he refers to it as the GTI Hades. It's probably the Silent Threat Reborn one.

given what the Lucifer did in AoA

Had to resort to a war of attrition because the Orestes kept beating it?

And it had plenty of help doing it, didn't it. And it's quite capable of destroying the Orestes even with everything the player brings to the table in that battle.

[BritishShivans]

Except here's the thing, Lorric - the Orestes DOES have these things. It's BP canon. They're just not mentioned. If Darius and the team redid AOA, they'd probably add a lot of the things that got added in WiH.

[Lorric]

Except here's the thing, Lorric - the Orestes DOES have these things. It's BP canon. They're just not mentioned. If Darius and the team redid AOA, they'd probably add a lot of the things that got added in WiH.

Well then you'd think they'd just walk over the Shivans, and that didn't happen.

Unless they also decked out the Shivans in a remake, but that's all hypothetical. If we go down that road, the discussion all becomes meaningless. We can only compare with what we see. As far as I'm concerned it's the Orestes as it is seen in Aquarius vs. the GTI Hades. But I've already said my piece on that. Only the OP can really clarify what they want to get out of this discussion, and that's how I interpreted it.

[The E]

Why? Fighting against Shivans is not like fighting against other Humans. When pitting the Erebus-class against other human ship classes, the more sophisticated equipment of the Erebus will have a larger effect than against the already very advanced Shivans.

And yes, as far as BP is concerned, there are very few differences between the Orestes and the Atreus.