Author Topic: Fenris cruisers  (Read 83578 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
But we've not seen large fleet operations, so we don't truly know all that much about space-warfare techniques as practiced by the GTVA.

That's effectively irrevelant, since the observation is basic and fundemental; regardless of tactics it applies.

Now, every ship in a contested system is not immediately in the firing line, as - while you can jump anywhere in the system - you need to know where the hell you're going, meaning a scouting operation beforehand, which gives you a little bit of warning before 6 Orions jump in on top of you. Moreover, by 'rear area', I mean that by context, whether by standing 20 kilometres from a node blockade, or sitting near the node into a hostile system to stand as a base for launching fighters and fleet C&C. IMO, the Hecate was given enough firepower to defend itself until it's true power - over 150 fighter-craft - can bring forth the hurt.

However, as the saying goes, a good recon leaves the same evidence as no recon. The whole idea is to see without being seen; and we do know that you can do that. Furthermore there is good evidence that such recon is not necessary. The Shivans in particular have a faculty for attack without warning; and for whatever reason the 150 fightercraft don't show up often.

The 20km from a node blockade works (it isn't possible to jump that short a distance...as far as we know), but the node thing doesn't. Either your on the other side and can commit almost no fighters (recall that most are not fitted with intersystem drives still, according to the techroom) but safe, or you're insystem, and therefore in danger...even greater danger then normal, since you've combine two of the only types of valuable targets in FS space warfare.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
umm like he said! Actualy he just agreed with what i was tring to say. God damn spelling! 150 spacecrafts are useless if you can not survive the engament with even a cruiser. Also its not that cost efective to have a ship that always need some close quarter protection from beam cannons.

As i said just mount one BG on each side and that should work just fine. Not too powerfull not to weak just the right mix of combinations.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
That's effectively irrevelant, since the observation is basic and fundemental; regardless of tactics it applies.
Fair enough.

However, as the saying goes, a good recon leaves the same evidence as no recon. The whole idea is to see without being seen; and we do know that you can do that. Furthermore there is good evidence that such recon is not necessary. The Shivans in particular have a faculty for attack without warning; and for whatever reason the 150 fightercraft don't show up often.
You make a good point, but that logic applies both ways, and given the Hecate is a mobile base of operations, effective friendly reconnaissance can enable said Hecate to parry any hostile move, and riposte with its own forces. Shivans are of course an aberration to this, but given the distinctly alien mechanics of their own fleet, conventional tactics would obviously be less effective.

Regarding the 150 fighters not showing up, that's simply engine limitations and gameplay taking precedence over logic within canon. A case in point is the Colossus launching something along the lines of one bloody wing of fighters in High Noon. Hence conclusions drawn on this topic ingame - while canon nonetheless - must be taken with a grain of salt, as they say.

The 20km from a node blockade works (it isn't possible to jump that short a distance...as far as we know), but the node thing doesn't. Either your on the other side and can commit almost no fighters (recall that most are not fitted with intersystem drives still, according to the techroom) but safe, or you're insystem, and therefore in danger...even greater danger then normal, since you've combine two of the only types of valuable targets in FS space warfare.
Yes, you've got me with that one. For some reason, I always instantly assume that all fighters are inter-system capable. My bad.

As a C&C Vessel, the Hecate would indeed be stationed in-system out of necessity, but given the obvious importance of such a craft, it would obviously be guarded. What i'm trying to say is that the Hecate is quite simply not intended to be a ship-of-the-line, but still an integral part of the battlefleet. Yes, she's a damn valuable target, but she sure has hell isn't defenseless, and when used in tandem with a guarding fleet, the Hecate would be more than capable to bring her fighter compliment to bear on any dogged opponent aiming to take her out, or simply jump the frak out of their if the fighting got too intense.

If the designers initially intended her to be a vessel comparable in strength to the Orion, then yes, it was a failure in design. However, if she was in fact designed in a style departed somewhat from the powerful, lumbering behemoths of old, and more in terms of a fleet-controlling vessel and carrier craft, then the design can indeed be called a success. It depends on your interpretation of her depicted role, and whatever meaning you can discern from the questionable tech-room description.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 06:18:19 am by Mefustae »

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
<lazyquote>ALPHAONE posted-pblah blah(instert date here)

Regarding the 150 fighters not showing up, that's simply engine limitations and gameplay taking precedence over logic within canon. A case in point is the Colossus launching something along the lines of one bloody wing of fighters in High Noon. Hence conclusions drawn on this topic ingame - while canon nonetheless - must be taken with a grain of salt, as they say.</lazyquote>

I completely agree with you there you optimistic Romanian Bunny ninja  :D
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
ALPHAONE posted-pblah blah(instert date here)
Mefustae posted-pblah blah(instert date here}
*Ahem* Corrected.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
"soothing voice" sorry Mefustae...........
good point
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
<lazyquote>ALPHAONE posted-pblah blah(instert date here)

I completely agree with you there you optimistic Romanian Bunny ninja  :D

Ahem its optimistic romanian dark-jedy-bunny-master!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
I thought DJ's were lords not masters?
Anyway,  random Chocobo post.........
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/031027.jpg

Its funny cos' its True
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
I'm telling you I laughed mi head off with that comic page. Nice one !
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Sarafan

  • No Title
  • 210
So then the GTVA should now work in two issues to the terran side of the fleet, building a sucessor to the Orion, with more or less equal fighter carring capacity and upgrading the anti-capital weaponry of the Hecate. A good idea would be to make vasudan beam canons more compatible with terran systems to give all ships a better punch, an Hecate with these weapons would be an incredible treath.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Eventually all GTVA ships will "evolve" into giant flying hangars with super armour, bristling with ER-LRBFsoopaGs and hyper traswarpsubspace chrono engines. And how boring would that be, identicl ships, no diversity...
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
I though that we came to the conclusion that the Terran fleet was evolving into carrier based fleets with corvettes and cruisers to do the anti-capital work.

 

Offline Nuclear1

  • 211
The Terrans are getting bigger and bigger carrier-type capital ships and letting smaller, cheaper ships provide the heavier firepower, while the Vasudans are letting the bigger ships deliver the heavy firepower.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Sarafan

  • No Title
  • 210
The Terrans are getting bigger and bigger carrier-type capital ships and letting smaller, cheaper ships provide the heavier firepower, while the Vasudans are letting the bigger ships deliver the heavy firepower.

I agree, let's not forget the that they're fighting together now so both types of fleets will complement each other nicely in combat.

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
That is an extremly valuble point. Should the Terrans encounter a situation where their small, fast ships are not able to cope, the Vasudans can send in one of their destroyers. Should the Vasudans encounter a vessel that has more than enough firepower to vaporize any destroyer the Vasudans trot out (the Sathanas) the Terrans could (if Command used tactics) use many corvette type vessels and combat craft to nutralize the Sathanas.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Yeah, but Command doesn't use tactics..or common sense :D


I don't know if the Terrnas will leave all the close fighting work to the corvettes.  While they do seem to specialize the fleet, with the Heacte being the carrier, it doesn't exculde the possibility of a Orion sucessor that will be even more anti-cap oriented...
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline S-99

  • MC Hammer
  • 210
  • A one hit wonder, you still want to touch this.
I don't see too much why there'd need to a successor to the orion. There's more than enough orions in service for the gtva. Then again on the other hand for the hecate. The hecate seems to resemble the orion from fs1 in a certain aspect. The orion from fs1 didn't have so much armament as in fs2. Then hecate design comes along, and it sort of reflects the orion from fs1 in that aspect, it doesn't have so much armament, it posses's the latest weaponry that it was designed to use. The orion used the latest weaponry from fs1, until it had newer weapons tossed on the side of it with all the existing weapons. The hecate possibly has a similar future if new revolutionary weapons get created. GTVA  has enough destroyers, the hecate has more than enough space on it for adding more turrets. GTVA should like do research into building frigates, they saw more than enough examples of how useful a frigate class can be. A frigate class would be awesome for an orion successor. Also with as much fs2 ships are different from fs1 ships, a lot of emphasis on weapons in fs2 is on fighter repellant and bomb interception. I can see how the move to making ships more into carriers can have it's principles.
Anyway, more frigates would be cool.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 08:46:01 pm by S-99 »
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Sarafan

  • No Title
  • 210
I don't see too much why there'd need to a successor to the orion. There's more than enough orions in service for the gtva. Then again on the other hand for the hecate. The hecate seems to resemble the orion from fs1 in a certain aspect. The orion from fs1 didn't have so much armament as in fs2. Then hecate design comes along, and it sort of reflects the orion from fs1 in that aspect, it doesn't have so much armament, it posses's the latest weaponry that it was designed to use. The orion used the latest weaponry from fs1, until it had newer weapons tossed on the side of it with all the existing weapons. The hecate possibly has a similar future if new revolutionary weapons get created. GTVA  has enough destroyers, the hecate has more than enough space on it for adding more turrets. GTVA should like do research into building frigates, they saw more than enough examples of how useful a frigate class can be. A frigate class would be awesome for an orion successor. Also with as much fs2 ships are different from fs1 ships, a lot of emphasis on weapons in fs2 is on fighter repellant and bomb interception. I can see how the move to making ships more into carriers can have it's principles.
Anyway, more frigates would be cool.


Interesting thing on the Orion and Hecate, its pretty possible and even expected, I think, that the GTVA does that upgrade them on the same way. About frigates, they would simply be just a somewhat bigger corvette, a good example is the Fenris and Leviathan, one simply adds something the other was lacking but pays in mobility, it would happen the same thing with frigates.


Destroyers are far more cooler. :)







 

Offline S-99

  • MC Hammer
  • 210
  • A one hit wonder, you still want to touch this.
Yes, but the only existing frigate was built to outrun ships, had shielded subsystems, armed like a destroyer, and even fashioned to break through blockades. That's a ship worth studying, now if only bosch had put a fighterbay in the back of it :drevil:
However that's true destroyers are far more cooler. But why not have the gtva invest in frigates? They decided to invest in corvettes and had a very good outcome, and a corvette is only bigger than a cruiser.
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

I won't use google for you.

An0n sucks my Jesus ring.

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
The reason the Leviathan had to give up speed is because it got more armor for the same form factor