[Don-DiZzLe]

I have to use DirectX cuz my openGl version is 1.1 and u need 1.2 to play it. Im on Vista beta2 by the way. If use windows XP will I then be able to play with OpenGL?

[Mars]

No, you need to get a new video card.

Do you have an AGP slot?

If not you'll need to go with PCI graphics, I'd recomend a Radeon 9250.

[Don-DiZzLe]

I have an ATI 9800 Pro 128 MB.

[Mars]

Then OpenGL should work fine . Have you tried running FS2O on OpenGL?

[Don-DiZzLe]

I tried many versions of FS2Open from v3.6.7 to the latest May 17th CVS build, but none of them will work with OpenGL, only DX.

My quess is that Vista is causing the problem here, but anywho DX works just fine for me and Im not planning to switch back to XP cuz i like Vista too much.

[ShivanSpS]

yes, im very sure of that. just search opengl+vista in google ...

P.D. You have the lastest graphic driver right?

[Don-DiZzLe]

Yep for Vista beta2 that would the ATI Vista beta2 driver

[karajorma]

Problem is that D3D has been depreciated. You'll find that some coders won't even build with it compiled in as time goes by as it means OpenGL becomes more stable. Unless we get a D3D coder by the end of the year the only way you'll be able to play on D3D is likely to be  to compile it yourself. And you won't get much support from the team cause the reason we're dropping it is to avoid spending time supporting the bug-ridden code.

Bear in mind that a couple of years ago the situation was completely the reverse so it's not like getting a good coder to do for D3D what Taylor did for OGL won't solve the problem but without one the future looks fairly bleak for D3D.

[neoterran]

With vista, the reason is that in windows, OpenGL is supported in the graphics drivers. Since vista uses a new driver model, (WDDM) probably the graphics cards makers aren't including opengl support in their beta drivers for vista, that 's why OpenGL doesn't work. Hell they didn't even have a control panel for the drivers until Beta 2.

Also running Beta 2 as your main OS isn't a very smart idea.

[S-99]

Yeah, like, vista beta 2 is beta software. It's still in testing, and vista beta is not a complete operating system really. It works, but it doesn't have everything in there yet that's supposed to have everything working.

[Apathy]

With vista, the reason is that in windows, OpenGL is supported in the graphics drivers. Since vista uses a new driver model, (WDDM) probably the graphics cards makers aren't including opengl support in their beta drivers for vista, that 's why OpenGL doesn't work. Hell they didn't even have a control panel for the drivers until Beta 2.

Also running Beta 2 as your main OS isn't a very smart idea.

yeah seriously, I'm 99.9% sure that OpenGL works on the final version on Vista, MS wouldn't be able to sell the damn OS to gamers if I didn't work.

[S-99]

But, like, instead right now, everyones like 50.0% sure that opengl works on beta2

[neoterran]

well, it depends on what card the user has and what drivers. Not everyone has the same hardware and not all hardware currently supports OpenGL under Windows Vista. I can say with 100 percent certainty that by the time Vista is production ready and Gold, it will suppport Freespace SCP in OpenGL mode.

[ShivanSpS]

yes, but I hear rumors about OpenGL will be converted to Direct3D in Windows Vista.

[neoterran]

That's wrong, OpenGL will be fully supported in Windows Vista with the DWM and Aero Glass on. It's not going to be a problem.

[Flaser]

yes, but I hear rumors about OpenGL will be converted to Direct3D in Windows Vista.

That doesn't make any whatsoever sense.

DirectX is an API, a programing interface that allows the usage of a variety of hardware with the same instruction set. Namely you order the program to draw things, make sounds, network in a manner you specified, but actual implementation with all the hardware idiosyncracies is left to the DirectX.

OpenGl is pretty much the same, but for graphics only. Unlike DirectX it's opensource, and will run on non-Windows machines.
OpenAl is the opensource, sound equivalent of OpenGl.

You can't convert one into the other as they have different standards and instruction sets, hence the reason why  graphic cards use different drivers for OpenGl and Direct3D.

Right now as far as I see it, Microsoft tries to pull the same **** they did with windows-95 and Internet Explorer: bundling the OS with their own ****, and through sheer market dominance, expelling the other standards from the consumers PC.
In other words dominating your electronic environment even more by gaining a further monopoly.

[taylor]

yes, but I hear rumors about OpenGL will be converted to Direct3D in Windows Vista.

That doesn't make any whatsoever sense.

It's true actually, and not all that strange.  Default OpenGL calls will be converted to Direct3D calls and used that way.  That's what got everyone so upset.  This isn't an issue for the graphics card makers which create true Vista ICDs though since that will be 100% OpenGL.  If you use an ATI or NVIDIA card then there is nothing to worry about since you'll get full OpenGL and not have to sacrifice Aero.  Those who use older Win2k/WinXP ICDs will get full OpenGL, but Aero will be disabled when it's in use.  Other vidcard makers, like with embedded chipsets, may just use the OpenGL->Direct3D thing to avoid them having to commit the resources needed to write real OpenGL compliant drivers.

Doing what Microsoft is doing here isn't strange.  It sucks because it's Microsoft doing it, but that's about it.  OpenAL for instance is basically just converting a standard sound interface to a non-standard sound interface.  You write your code for OpenAL and OpenAL will then translate it all to (as examples) ALSA for Linux, CoreAudio for OS X, or DirectSound for Windows.  Microsoft is getting out of having to support any sort of real OpenGL tech, and instead it's left up to the video card makers (which is basically how it's been all along).  On the plus side there will be half-way decent OpenGL support either way, even if it is getting routed to Direct3D.  Previously, if you didn't have a good OpenGL ICD, then OpenGL on Windows was pretty much useless.

[neoterran]

basically, you can only really run aero if you run on an ati or nvidia card anyway, since very few other cards (and woe be you if you run some weird parhelia or something) support shader model 2.0, which is a requirement.

So as Taylor has said, the vast majority of people who play recent 3d games use a ATI or Nvidia card, and they'll get solid OpenGL support in Windows Vista no matter what (see above post)

I remember that when this was first announced, everyone freaked out, but then when it was realized how it was going to be done, everyone calmed down. There was even a front page article on the opengl.org site about it, saying a sort-of thank you to microsoft...  i'm not a graphics programmer so i don't exactly understand it, but i did get the impression it wasn't going the be the end of the world and taylor has made it more clear what is going on now.

Recently microsoft has announced that the way graphics cards currently use scheduling in the new WDDM 1.0 spec (the model for the new vista ICDs) needs to be overhauled in hardware for WDDM 2.0, which will come out after Vista's launch, for performance reasons. Currently there are some issues around apps that run 3D in a window with VSYNC enabled having exclusive access to the graphics card, which can interfere with the desktop compositing being responsive in the right way if another app needs access to the GPU  . And their roadmap indicates they have further improvement to a WDDM 2.1 level spec planned. So it seems the new driver model is semi-obsolete in windows vista before it's even been released