[Jeff Vader]

Out of curiosity, why don't you like .vp files?

As for using .pcx instead of .dds it should occur to you that FS1, FS2, Inferno, and many other mods use .pcx files. Is there some reason I can't?

No reason why you can't, but some reasons why you shouldn't. Taken from Herra Tohtori's excellent GIMP thread:

FS2_Open can use the following image formats:


*DDS
 -Direct Draw Surface. Full of awesome and sauce. Use this whenever you can (except for work-in-progress editing - TGA is better for that purpose).
 -should always have power-of-two dimensions, e.g. 32x32, 64x128, 512x1024, 2048x2048 or the like.
 -DXT compression reduces video memory consumption to either 1/6th or 1/4th compared to uncompressed texture of same resolution
 -DXT1 compression is for files with no alpha channel
 -DXT3 and DXT5 compression include an alpha channel
 -uncompressed DDS files can be used when the DXT compression is too hard on the image quality. u888 for RGB files, u8888 for RGBA files.
 -some effects can also use u555 and u5555 formats. These are much the same as uncompressed 24- and 32-bit files (u888 and u8888), but instead of 8 bits per channel they have five. This makes them a good options for, say, converting PCX weapon effects and such without getting horrid compression artefacts. They are larger than DXT compressed files, but smaller than full 24/32-bit files.
 -supports mip maps included in the image format itself
 -speeds up loading times as the GPU can use this image format directly without need to convert it to uncompressed bitmaps, as is the case with PCX and TGA textures.

...

*PCX
 -native, retail-based FreeSpace 2 image format. Will work with the retail game assuming the stuff that uses it is also compatible.
 -limited to 8-bit aka 256 colours (or 255 if you use one colour for transparency support)
 -pure green (#00ff00 or [0,255,0]) is considered transparent as a rudimentary one-bit alpha channel
 -ANI file frame format - when you're building animation files for interface, you'll need to use this format for now.
 -should only be used for modding for Retail FreeSpace 2 or some of the interface art - mainly bits that are not yet compatible with more sophisticated image formats.

Edit:

I just use the Freespace\Data folder and don't bother with creating any other folders.

I will cry myself to sleep tonight. The whole point of "creating other folders" is to keep all mods separate by having each one in its own subfolder. This makes sure that \freespace2\ itself stays clean. If \freespace2\ is clean, the regular FS2 campaign works. And if one mod fails and causes issues, all the other mods will work like they always have.
Placing files to \freespace2\ or \freespace2\data\ just leads to people putting more than one mod in there simultaneously or forgetting mod files there while trying to play some other mods or just the regular FS2 campaign. And when they have problems, they come here complaining and tech support people get to headdesk until their foreheads are open.

In retail FS2, mods must be installed into \freespace2\ or \freespace2\data\ , since the FS2 engine can't figure out what to do with subfolders. But in general, there is no reason why mod-playing people should/would be playing retail FS2, when FSO is available and its mod-handling mechanism is kicking some serious arse.

[Dragon]

It seems like you have mostly retail modding skills, Spuds.
FSO offers a lot of new features, including separate mod folders, new graphics formats and many more.
You can read about most of it here: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Portal:Modding

[spuds]

Tinman, FS2 left oportinity for a sequel and GV is an attempt to fill that gap. PLEASE NOTE THAT IF YOU WANT TO IMPROVE GV PLEASE DO IT. And if you don't like GV make one you do.

it starts several years after the Capella thing and ends with the return of the Ancients, the formation of the Confederacy, and destruction of the Shivans and their creators.

To say any more would end up looking like advertising. 


Dragon, my copy of freespace is some kind of a mutt so yeah things are a bit trashed.

the reason i don't like .vp files goes back about 6 years before i knew anything about modding.

Thanks for the info in .dds I had no idea it was that much better than .pcx

That's a good sugestion Dragon I think i'll get a copy of FSO

Everyone

Here are some ideas what do ya'll think of them? good, bad, or retarted?

LAMS like in mechwarrior 

What about a pre-FS1 mod with no missles, radar, or any of the fancy stuff.
           Primaries, rockets and unguided bombs for weapons. I don't have any good ideas for a plot line but this is on the back burrner.
   

[Dragon]

What about a pre-FS1 mod with no missles, radar, or any of the fancy stuff.
           Primaries, rockets and unguided bombs for weapons. I don't have any good ideas for a plot line but this is on the back burrner.

There's one mod that fits this description almost to the letter, you have missiles in some cases, but they're light dumbfires or heatseekers.
It's called "Terran-Vasudan war Project" and it's hosted here, on HLP.
It requires FSO, so after you get it, check it out.
Project board: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?board=67.0

[NGTM-1R]

Out of curiosity, why don't you like .vp files?

I'm going to guess because they're significantly larger then their individual file contents, something I've noted a few times.

[Jeff Vader]

I've only done one comparison so maybe it was just luck, but I once extracted one of the Procyon Insurgency .vps and the size of the extracted contents was exactly as large as the size of the .vp.

[The E]

Yeah, the overhead should be on the order of a few kilobytes, at most.

[TrashMan]

.VP files are overrated. I'm not using them and I don't plan too either. I actually find it easier to update and work on mods without the .vp's

[The E]

Yes, DURING DEVELOPMENT, they are a nuisance. But when actually distributing a mod?

Let's just consider how many strange errors we are able to diagnose by looking at the VP checksums and file numbers in the average debug log. That's something that you just can't get when using a simple directory structure (That VP files are susceptible to corruption in the first place, however, is certainly a bad thing. Flaming_Sword had plans to introduce a new file format that would change that, but that's in the future).

[Jeff Vader]

Indeed. During development it would be quite a pain in the arse to be constantly repacking .vp files or editing the existing ones. But we were talking about the release. I haven't played Flames of War so I have to ask: did you release it in a non-vp format, TrashMan?

[Spoon]

Indeed. During development it would be quite a pain in the arse to be constantly repacking .vp files or editing the existing ones. But we were talking about the release. I haven't played Flames of War so I have to ask: did you release it in a non-vp format, TrashMan?

FoW is indeed released in a non-vp format

[Jeff Vader]

Fair enough. More difficult for the end-user (and a serious annoyance in tech support situations, as The E explained), but the creator makes the decision in this matter.

[NGTM-1R]

Yeah, the overhead should be on the order of a few kilobytes, at most.

Odd. The differences I see are usually at least a meg.

[Jeff Vader]

This calls for further investigations.

[est1895]

I've scanned my computer and defraged the drive and searched for bad sectors.  Everything is fine.  So why do I keep getting a corruption error when I unpack the second file?  Guys, your not having the trouble I am.  Could you please tell me of what might be wrong with my computer.  I'm gonna download it one more time, which will make 3rd time. 

[TrashMan]

Yes, DURING DEVELOPMENT, they are a nuisance. But when actually distributing a mod?

Let's just consider how many strange errors we are able to diagnose by looking at the VP checksums and file numbers in the average debug log. That's something that you just can't get when using a simple directory structure (That VP files are susceptible to corruption in the first place, however, is certainly a bad thing. Flaming_Sword had plans to introduce a new file format that would change that, but that's in the future).

Rly? Hmmm.
Is that somehow special? I had no trouble finding errors with the debug loggs wihtout any VP's. I don't get it.
A .VP is just a type of .rar basicly, the same files are in there. I don't see logicly how it can be any easier.

[The E]

The point is that, as a VP is a single file, it can be checksummed easily. If you have a simple directory, you have hundreds, if not thousands of files. Finding out which one of those has been corrupted is, in my experience, non-trivial.

[-Norbert-]

Also if you have just 3 files (plus mod.ini and bmp) the chances of some new player accidentially messing up his installation are much smaller than if you had hundreds of files for each mod....
Especially when it comes to patches. With the vp, you just place the patchfile into the modfolder and that's it.
With seperate files you have to know which file goes where, unless you unpack it directly into the moddirectory (something I don't like to do myself - call it a character quirk).

[Tinman]

ok, beyond the discussion about pros and cons of *vp files

Does anyone get this thing running?
I looked for the problems in weapons.tbl and ships.tbl, ran the 3.6.10 debug build and now this

Code: [Select]

"ASSERTION: "sip->primary_bank_weapons[i] >= 0" at Ship.cpp:3861"
see log at the end
can someone give me a hint where to look now?
changed weapons and ships tables attached (not perfect done - I only want the first mission loading   )

Code: [Select]

==========================================================================
DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning
categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved.
==========================================================================
FreeSpace version: 3.6.10
Passed cmdline options:
  -env
  -mipmap
  -missile_lighting
  -glow
  -nomotiondebris
  -spec
  -normal
  -3dshockwave
  -cache_bitmaps
  -ballistic_gauge
  -dualscanlines
  -orbradar
  -rearm_timer
  -targetinfo
  -3dwarp
  -ship_choice_3d
  -weapon_choice_3d
  -snd_preload
  -mod Ghosts_of_Valor
  -fps
Building file index...
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\root_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xce10d76c
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\sdr1119.vp' with a checksum of 0xe13995b9
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\smarty_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xddeb3b1e
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\sparky_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x164fe65a
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xa11d56f1
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\stu_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0xd77da83a
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\tango1_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x4c25221e
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\tango2_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x86920b82
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\tango3_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x705e8d71
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\tangoA_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x2e10c984
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\tangoB_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x0a5f4659
Found root pack 'E:\freespace2\warble_fs2.vp' with a checksum of 0x1b0b325a
Searching root 'E:\freespace2\Ghosts_of_Valor\' ... 1096 files
Searching root 'E:\freespace2\' ... 136 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\root_fs2.vp' ... 157 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\sdr1119.vp' ... 69 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\smarty_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\sparky_fs2.vp' ... 3027 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' ... 1337 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\stu_fs2.vp' ... 2355 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\tango1_fs2.vp' ... 32 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\tango2_fs2.vp' ... 15 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\tango3_fs2.vp' ... 10 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\tangoA_fs2.vp' ... 0 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\tangoB_fs2.vp' ... 0 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 1 files
Found 14 roots and 8245 files.
AutoLang: Language auto-detection successful...
Setting language to English
Initializing OpenAL...

... OpenAL successfully initialized!

... OpenGL init is complete!
Size of bitmap info = 705 KB
Size of bitmap extra info = 40 bytes
ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted)
GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors...
SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence...
SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization...
LUA: Opening LUA state...
LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries...
LUA: Beginning ADE initialization
ADE: Initializing enumeration constants...
ADE: Assigning Lua session...
SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence....
Wokka!  Error opening file (scripting.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'scripting.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete.
SCRIPTING: Splash screen overrides checked
SCRIPTING: Splash hook has been run
SCRIPTING: Splash screen conditional hook has been run
Using high memory settings...
Wokka!  Error opening file (interface.tbl)!
WMCGUI: Unable to parse 'interface.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
ANI 2_radar1 with size 209x170 (33.6% wasted)
Windoze reported 16 joysticks, we found 0
Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices
Wokka!  Error opening file (armor.tbl)!
TABLES: Unable to parse 'armor.tbl'!  Error code = 5.
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'GSbspcRiftExp' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'GSbspcRiftExp' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'GSbspcRiftExp' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'GSbspcRiftExp' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'GSbspcRiftExp' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'GSbspcRiftExp' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon name SRed already exists in weapons.tbl.  All weapon names must be unique; the second entry has been skipped" at Weapons.cpp:2047
WARNING: "Weapon name BFRed already exists in weapons.tbl.  All weapon names must be unique; the second entry has been skipped" at Weapons.cpp:2047
WARNING: "Weapon name UltraRed already exists in weapons.tbl.  All weapon names must be unique; the second entry has been skipped" at Weapons.cpp:2047
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'warpmap01_02' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'warpmap01_02' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'warpmap01_02' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
WARNING: "Weapon explosion 'warpmap01_02' does not have an LOD0 anim!" at Weapons.cpp:1241
ships.tbl(line 2003:Warning: Unable to find [Average Shvian] in AI class names list.
WARNING: "ships.tbl(line 2003: Warning: Unable to find [Average Shvian] in AI class names list." at PARSELO.CPP:668
WARNING: "Secondary bank capacities have not been completely specified for ship class GTVF Halibut... fix this!!" at Ship.cpp:3991
ships.tbl(line 3225:Warning: Unable to find [none] in AI class names list.
WARNING: "ships.tbl(line 3225: Warning: Unable to find [none] in AI class names list." at PARSELO.CPP:668
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Spurple"  in ship: Time Vortex's primary banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Spurple"  in ship: Time Vortex's primary dogfight banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
ships.tbl(line 4124:Warning: Unable to find [none] in AI class names list.
WARNING: "ships.tbl(line 4124: Warning: Unable to find [none] in AI class names list." at PARSELO.CPP:668
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Mekhu HL-7"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Prometheus R"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Prometheus S"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Helios"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Mekhu HL-7"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary dogfight banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Prometheus R"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary dogfight banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Prometheus S"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary dogfight banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Helios"  in ship: GVB Bakha's primary dogfight banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Mekhu HL-7"  in ship: GVB Bakha's default primary banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
WARNING: "Unable to find WEAPON_LIST_TYPE string "Mekhu HL-7"  in ship: GVB Bakha's default primary banks." at PARSELO.CPP:2525
ASSERTION: "sip->primary_bank_weapons[i] >= 0" at Ship.cpp:3861
    parse_ship()    parse_shiptbl()    ship_init()    game_init()    game_main()    WinMain()    WinMainCRTStartup()    kernel32.dll 77051174()
    ntdll.dll 774eb3f5()
    ntdll.dll 774eb3c8()
Int3(): From e:\storage\fso\fs2_open_3_6_10\code\globalincs\windebug.cpp at line 1075

Edit: I added the "Mekhu HL-7" but the debug-log is endless - I give up. That is beyond my experience and time I can spend on it.  

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Jeff Vader]

Completely unrelated observations regarding the log, but:

Code: [Select]

Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\sdr1119.vp' ... 69 files
You don't need this file.

Code: [Select]

Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\tangoA_fs2.vp' ... 0 files
Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\tangoB_fs2.vp' ... 0 files
You don't need these files (as you can see, they contain absolutely nothing).

Code: [Select]

Searching root pack 'E:\freespace2\warble_fs2.vp' ... 1 files
Your warble_fs2.vp is broken: it should contain 52 files (though they're just music files).