Author Topic: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)  (Read 12749 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Interesting...
I don't see that the current map has to be a disadvantage for Delest. Not having access to the front could be quite good depending on the situation. Imagine a relatively long and exhausting war between the fractions followed by a hostile invasion through Tamy. Now especially Britannia might end up being punded from all sides and potentially forced to accept a peace treaty that is not exactly in their favour just to survive.
In the end it's all theory and we'll see how it woks out. As for me I still prefer sticking to DD :D


And one question about the map:
Is there any difference between single point to point starlances and ones that are connected to the same point? Can the latter be used to bypass the system, are they one way starlance or is it just the illustration due to a lack of space within the map?
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Spoon

  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Thanks for the high praise, glad you guys like it :)

I did just notice,

1. Britannia - Auriga. The jump point from the Auriga System that leads to the Serpens System, is actually maked as the Authuria system.
2. Britannia - Serpens. The jump point from Serpens to Virgo & Fortune is only marked as Virgo (text saving possibly?)
3. Neutral - Draco. The jump point from Draco to Algol is marked as the Tamy starlance.

I can't see anything else, didn't notice any spelling mistakes but I wasn't looking for them. I'm not that detailed right now, :(
Woops, good catches. I shall fix everything.

And one question about the map:
Is there any difference between single point to point starlances and ones that are connected to the same point? Can the latter be used to bypass the system, are they one way starlance or is it just the illustration due to a lack of space within the map?
Starlances are always two way traffic. You can't use those points to bypass a system completely, but it is possible to go through both lances in one turn.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
No worries, I'll be studying the map again after the changes. Got to make sure it is right and that I have some sort of idea of how things could play out. :)

EDIT:
Uploaded the CRF Records from the first game. I never completed them or anyone elses :(. But I did just draw up a *hopefully* easier template for the upcoming session. If anybody likes it. :)

Just tried to make it much smaller and easier to use. Only adding essential information rather than a record of each turn like I tried last time. Faction Image, Admiral/Fleet details, as detailed or barebones as you'd like.

Thoughts?

[attachment deleted by nobody]
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 04:32:18 am by Veers »
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline Spoon

  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Once again, a map



So my initial idea was to have every fleet's info be displayed in a little box next to its current location, but alas my concerns about running out of pixel real estate were validated. So only the garrison fleets get that honor, and I moved the status of the player fleets in seperate boxes.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Reality is the finest flesh...
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
That's really a problem .... esspecially since the info right now is kinda all over the place (literally)

Wouldn't it be easier, and more accessable to boot, if you would move the player fleet and faction info out of the map and into a new space that frames the map?

kinda like this, except with straight lines:

__________________________
|   |__________SF__________|  |
|   |                                           |   |
| C |                MAP                  | U |
| R |                                         | G |
| F |                                         | C |
|   |_____________________|  |
|   |_________DD__________|  |


This might also allow for easier editing, I think
Proud owner of a Prometheus Lens since 12/6/17.

"As a rebellion fails, a search begins."
- The Lost Generation - Ashcroft coming soon -

"One day every reputation must be tested."
- The Lost Generation - Jarin coming soon -

"One choice seperates heroism from villany."
- The Lost Generation - Santiago coming soon -


"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Point taken, I shall reevaluate. Might need to add some extra pixels to the side then. (I hope the map doesn't become too big, it's already 2000 x 2000 currently)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Reality is the finest flesh...
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
(I hope the map doesn't become too big, it's already 2000 x 2000 currently)

Hmmm.... I come up with a few options that would mitigate that problem but each would require additional work everytime you edit the map ... which I think wouldn't help at all as the game progresses -- maybe if could chare a little bit about the restrictions you have to work with (e.g. the 2k x 2k limit seems rather arbitrary to me at first glace) I can be of better help
Proud owner of a Prometheus Lens since 12/6/17.

"As a rebellion fails, a search begins."
- The Lost Generation - Ashcroft coming soon -

"One day every reputation must be tested."
- The Lost Generation - Jarin coming soon -

"One choice seperates heroism from villany."
- The Lost Generation - Santiago coming soon -


"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I like where the faction info is right now, but the fleets I am unsure about. Perhaps put them opposite the faction info? I'm not a big a fan of the above idea but it depends on how much space you need. There is definitely more space with the above idea

F |          | F
L |          | A
E |  MAP  | C
E |          | T
T |          | I
S |          | O
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Reality is the finest flesh...
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I like where the faction info is right now, but the fleets I am unsure about. Perhaps put them opposite the faction info? I'm not a big a fan of the above idea but it depends on how much space you need. There is definitely more space with the above idea

F |          | F
L |          | A
E |  MAP  | C
E |          | T
T |          | I
S |          | O

It would be an improvement, but the problem would remain, I think

You see the original version (to be found here) had the great advantage of being able to convey all information needed to play with without having to look at it more than twice (once to look at the faction info on the right and another to focus on the map). An added advantage was that it conveyed all open information at once.

But with the addition of the fleet info [here, things got a bit less elegant:
For one you had to look at least three points on the map to get all the relevant information to play (1 - faction info on the right; 2 - your faction's fleet info; 3 - focus on map) and if you wanted all all open information you needed to focus on 5 sources of information.

Your approach would reduce the sources of information back to three, which is good. But their positioning is less than optional as you would have first look to both the far right and the far left (having to go the futherest distance between either) before you had all the information you needed to just acertain the status of  your faction on the map in the centre. It would however still convoy all open information with these 3 looks which is a point in its favor.


My suggested approach would sacrifice conveying all open information for putting minimum of information required to play into just two sources (1 - your faction bar; 2 - the map); which also does a good job at guiding players' awareness towards their faction info, focusing them on it and (hopefully) incentifying using it to as primary source of decision making.
The downside of course is that looking up all open information now takes up between 5 and 8 looks ( either 1 to each faction bar then at the map, or 1 to one faction bar, then to the map and then to next faction bar and back at the map, repeat until you run out of factions) and that guiding the players to pay less attention to all the information may not be what Spoon wants.


Of course, all this before there will be non-player fleets on the map... which is a problem I had not considered previously either...
Proud owner of a Prometheus Lens since 12/6/17.

"As a rebellion fails, a search begins."
- The Lost Generation - Ashcroft coming soon -

"One day every reputation must be tested."
- The Lost Generation - Jarin coming soon -

"One choice seperates heroism from villany."
- The Lost Generation - Santiago coming soon -


"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Hmmm.... I come up with a few options that would mitigate that problem but each would require additional work everytime you edit the map ... which I think wouldn't help at all as the game progresses -- maybe if could chare a little bit about the restrictions you have to work with (e.g. the 2k x 2k limit seems rather arbitrary to me at first glace) I can be of better help
It's completely arbitrary, I just don't know how well it works for people on smaller (laptop) displays. But I guess a few extra pixels to the side won't make that much of a difference now.




It's been two weeks now, so I guess I should at least report on the progress. Which is that I have like ~60% of the rules written down at this point. (I hope I'm not making this way too terribly complex for a forum game  :nervous: ) And as you can see above, the map is like 95% done. I still need a bit of time to take a step back and go through the rules and play test a few things to make sure it's actually fun.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Lepanto

  • 210
  • Believes in Truth
    • Skype
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
On a laptop, and it works fine for me.
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
Finian O'Toole, The Irish Times, 5 May 1994

Blue Planet: The Battle Captains: Missions starring the Admirals of BP: WiH
Frontlines 2334+2335: T-V War campaign
GVB Ammit: Vasudan strike bomber
Player-Controlled Capship Modding Tutorial

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Reality is the finest flesh...
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
It's completely arbitrary, I just don't know how well it works for people on smaller (laptop) displays. But I guess a few extra pixels to the side won't make that much of a difference now.

Okay,
then you might consider adding some rows of transparant pixels to turn it back into a square; it helps with the automatic scalling most browsers are capable of (because scalling the relations in a square are easier to calculate, then with recktangle)

I also checked it with my tablet earlier, and it looks good there too

Last but not least: the new version is good and very functional

(I hope I'm not making this way too terribly complex for a forum game  :nervous: )[...] I still need a bit of time to take a step back and go through the rules and play test a few things to make sure it's actually fun.

Not force it... and just remember that all you have to do is allow the players engagement with all apsects of your rule set for them to make it fun
Proud owner of a Prometheus Lens since 12/6/17.

"As a rebellion fails, a search begins."
- The Lost Generation - Ashcroft coming soon -

"One day every reputation must be tested."
- The Lost Generation - Jarin coming soon -

"One choice seperates heroism from villany."
- The Lost Generation - Santiago coming soon -


"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
About this map, I don't know about the rest of you, but have any of you just paused for a moment or two just to marvel at it? Quality-wise, I could absolutely see that on a professionally made board game or packaged in some other game on a sheet of high quality A3 paper, akin to how some games, eg. Rome Total War, came packaged with a World map.

It's beautiful. It's a work of art if you ask me. How do you even make something like that?

 

Offline Spoon

  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
With photoshop :p
(but thanks!)

Also, everything is going just peachy, absolutely nothing to worry about. I have not run into any rule issues that I have not yet had the courage to sit down and work out.
No problem.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I'm curious to read more about britannia.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Reality is the finest flesh...
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
If you need a 2nd set of eyes for the rules, feel free to send me a PM ...
Proud owner of a Prometheus Lens since 12/6/17.

"As a rebellion fails, a search begins."
- The Lost Generation - Ashcroft coming soon -

"One day every reputation must be tested."
- The Lost Generation - Jarin coming soon -

"One choice seperates heroism from villany."
- The Lost Generation - Santiago coming soon -


"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Spoon

  • Moderator
  • 212
  • ♪ ♬ ヾ(´︶`♡)ノ ♬ 淫画
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Oh no, not another 'Spoon makes excuses for why he completely failed to meet his own estimate' post.

I should confess why my positive estimate of 2 weeks is completely shattered at this point. It actually comes down to a bit of 'insecurity' on my end. You see, during the first forum game, there were times where I kind of started feeling like it was becoming a chore to keep up with the game. While it was great seeing so many people involved in it and having fun with it, on my end it involved a lot of dumb math (and ho boy, I was so poorly organized). And I guess there's also the pressure of having multiple people expecting me to be on time with stuff (not always my strong suit!).
So it kind of comes down to me being afraid of starting the game and then burning out after a few weeks, which would suck for everyone involved. I do have a lot of stuff automated right now and neatly organized, so hopefully it will be different this time around.

So I was reminded of what a very wise arachnid said on irc; he suggested doing a short 'tutorial' campaign to get people accustomed to the rules and such. Which could also be a great way to test how much of a 'mental drain' this would be for me and to work out kinks in the rules and the like. (On that subject, I've had Orph3u5 take a look at the rules as they are and he had some good suggestions)

Would you guys be interested in doing a 10 turn (20 week) long test game first and see how things work out? It'll take place on a smaller, symmetric map and without faction leaders (making ministers effectively the leaders of the factions for the test game). By the end of the 10th turn, the scores shall be tallied and the winners can drink to their own success.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
A short test run sounds cool to me!
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Linux OBS Packages: FSO 3.7.0 | FSO BP Build | wxLauncher (?) | PCS2 (?) | wxVPView (?)
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Enioch

  • 210
  • Alternative History Word Writer
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
Agreed, I suppose. My only concern is that I'm very interested in minister gameplay and that the other DD players might not want to have me play the 'faction leader' role. If any objections arise, I'd be happy playing a normal admiral.

EDIT: Also, don't worry Spoon. There's no reason to apologise or feel bad - you're going above and beyond the call of duty just by trying to set up another game.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 03:08:25 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game II: Forum game harder (Vague rule idea outline discussion thread)
I'm happy to help out in any capacity, test game, full game, assistance with behind the scenes etc.

But a shorter campaign will also help iron out any unexpected rules or gameplay. Will be exciting for a *potentially* full length, indepth, drawn out campaign later. :)

Britannia please.
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3