[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Singh


Actually, the Shivans would get their asses kicked the first, and then second time around.

Then they'd build the Gargant, and beat the SW back for a while, before it, too is overwelhmed.

Then they'd build somethng bigger and get back at the Imperial fleet.

One thing you gotta love about Shivans....they always seem to come back with something bigger

They're going to need a huge technology advance to counter the Imperials' much faster FTL (same-day travel across the ENTIRE GALAXY), shielded caps (don't even bother using bombers), much more potent weaponry, etc.

[NGTM-1R]

Let me summarize for you:

Weaponry point: refuted.
Shields point: Beam cannon bypass shields.
FTL travel: What the hell have you been smoking to give that kind of figure?

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Woolie Wool


They're going to need a huge technology advance to counter the Imperials' much faster FTL (same-day travel across the ENTIRE GALAXY), shielded caps (don't even bother using bombers), much more potent weaponry, etc.

When you have bombs in the 100's of megatons range, shields Capship shields might become a bit...overrated. I doubt even the Lucifer shields could withstand multiple helios warheads.

And I'm telling you, those weapon figures are absolute BULL.

[Col. Fishguts]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
FTL travel: What the hell have you been smoking to give that kind of figure?

The Thrawn trilogy books give some accurate numbers about FTL speed, and they're widely accepted as canon.

[Woolie Wool]

TPM indicates same-day travel at least halfway across the galaxy as the Sith Infiltrator took off from Coruscant in the deep core and landed on Tatooine in the Outer Rim during the same day. My memory of TPM is hazy, but IIRC the Infiltrator took off during Tatooine's daytime and landed in the daytime, which indicates a travel time of no more than 12 hours or so.

[Cyber Phoenix]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
Let me summarize for you:

Weaponry point: refuted.

ICS is cannon and nothing on the movies contradicts it.

Shields point: Beam cannon bypass shields.

Beam cannons ignore Freespace shields. Prove it that they can bypass SW shields that work on entirely different principles.

FTL travel: What the hell have you been smoking to give that kind of figure?

Watch the movies. Travelling half of the galaxy on a single day in TMP. The other movies also provide evidence.

[Woolie Wool]

I think he's also pointing out that Shadow beams bypass Minbari pseudo-shields, but this is as invalid as the FS argument because SW shields are not the same as Minbari defense systems and should not be presumed as being the same.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Cyber Phoenix


ICS is cannon and nothing on the movies contradicts it.



Beam cannons ignore Freespace shields. Prove it that they can bypass SW shields that work on entirely different principles.



Watch the movies. Travelling half of the galaxy on a single day in TMP. The other movies also provide evidence.

ICS is baseless, IMPOSSIBLE HORSE****. It's contradicted at EVERY POINT IN THE MOVIES. Whenever a turbolaser is fired, it's contradicted. Whenever a SD is shown moving through space, it's contradicted. Whenever a FIGHTER lands a hit, it's contradicted.

[Cyber Phoenix]

ICS is baseless, IMPOSSIBLE HORSE****

Really?!:rolleyes:  Care to say why it is -baseless, IMPOSSIBLE HORSE****- and -It's contradicted at EVERY POINT IN THE MOVIES- despite lucas saying it is cannon?

Whenever a turbolaser is fired, it's contradicted. Whenever a SD is shown moving through space, it's contradicted. Whenever a FIGHTER lands a hit, it's contradicted.

Again I ask, why is it contradictied? Give me just one example please.
With all the contradictions you know it must be easy to provide a single example.

[Jetmech Jr.]

According to the figures I've heard from this ICS, the Turbolasers are 200-800 Gigaton weapons.

Is that good enough for you?

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.


ICS is baseless, IMPOSSIBLE HORSE****. It's contradicted at EVERY POINT IN THE MOVIES. Whenever a turbolaser is fired, it's contradicted. Whenever a SD is shown moving through space, it's contradicted. Whenever a FIGHTER lands a hit, it's contradicted.

Wrong. ISDs around Hoth destroyed huge asteroids with their LIGHT turbolasers, indicating megaton-level firepower. The heavies were never used on an asteroid of planet in the movies, but ISDs used them to perform Base Delta Zero attacks several times in the EU (which is canon unless it says something explicitly contradicted by ICS, the movies, or the novelizations), and analysis of the Slave-1 battle scene in Ep2 confirms the 2-kiloton figure for fighter laser cannons, thanks to asteroids being vaporized by Slave-1's guns. Also, the first Death Star moving around Yavin in a matter of minutes in Ep4 indicates very high velocities.

[Cyber Phoenix]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
According to the figures I've heard from this ICS, the Turbolasers are 200-800 Gigaton weapons.

Is that good enough for you?

No.

You can't simply say that they are bull**** just because you don't like them. Either backup your claims or say nothing at all.

[stithe2000]

Wow IP... No kidding!

[Jetmech Jr.]

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30607.0.html

Read this thread, Cyber.

[Woolie Wool]

-snip due to reply to wrong post-

[Cyber Phoenix]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,30607.0.html

Read this thread, Cyber.

I've read it.
And you still haven't answered my question.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Then you are evidently illiterate, or you didn't read the points brought up.

It's obvious, using even a little bit of common sense, that there is no ****ing way the Turbolasers are even 100 Gigatons, let alone 800.

[Woolie Wool]

If the canon gods say 200 gigatons, 200 gigatons it will be. Lucasfilm > you on the canon scale. Before you scream "SCREW CANON!" you should realize that a defined canon is the ONLY way to carry out versus debates. Most prominent universes have canon policies, ranging from strict ones like that of Star Trek (Gene Roddenberry said "It's not Star Trek until I say it's Star Trek!") to relaxed ones like the SW policy to the almost useless, like that of 40k ("The Black Library books are canon...sort of, and the Imperial Armour books are canon...sometimes" is the general attitude).

[Cyber Phoenix]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
Then you are evidently illiterate, or you didn't read the points brought up.

It's obvious, using even a little bit of common sense, that there is no ****ing way the Turbolasers are even 100 Gigatons, let alone 800.

There is one thing called suspencion of disbelief, look it up you will understand more.

[Jetmech Jr.]

This is the problem with carrying out a debate against everyone at the same time Woolie Wool. You mix up positions. I don't give a rat's ass about who would kick who's ass, in all honesty. What I don't condone are fanboy's who try to justify absolutely IMPOSSIBLE scenarios and stats with "So and so says it's true."

Read my sig, for a clearer explanation.