[Kosh]

Dissenting opinion:


While I respect the amount of work being done on this, I do feel something needs to be said. While the Shivans do need their own versions of secondary weapons, I don't think their primaries should be changed too much. Shivans depend on swarms of fighters to get the job done, and their primaries reflect this quite well. If they became as powerful as their GTVA counterparts, it makes it a bit more....unbalanced. Suddenly you would have a horde of ships with weapons just as good or better than their numerically smaller opponents doesn't make for good game balance, IMO.

Personally I also don't think blob turrets should be messed around with. Yes, they suck against shields, but that was really the point. If blob turrets were excellent there would have been no reason to switch to AA beams or flak in FS2. Shivan capital ships (except the Moloch) never had good anti-fighter defences, they always depended on superior numbers of fighters to protect them.

What made the Lucifer so special in FS1 was it's shields and amazingly powerful beam cannons. Its shields made it invincible while it's beams did large amounts of damage with a short cool-down time. It's already a menace, and I don't think its blob turrets really need upgrading.

On the other hand the story and tech descriptions look awesome. Me likes.

[Flaming_Sword]

I left the original fighter/bomber primaries in for those who wanted to make missions with those. However, I changed the original turrets (though I can put them back in if people really want them, they're just table entries, after all).

However, shivan tactics in any missions/campaigns I make will differ, taking the changed balance into account. Justification coming to a techroom entry near you.

Since this is set after FS2, with enough time for the shivans to retrofit their entire fleet, I've considered changing the GTVA ships and/or weapons as well (hellooooo feature creep). Since I can't model or texture to save my life (nor do I have the time to), any new ships/weapons will likely come from another mod set after FS2 or a ship pack (feel free to suggest something). Of course I'll have to ask permission and all that.

I think this is turning into one of those mods that never gets done...

[Retsof]

You could use Blue Planet ships.  Personally I think those ships are awesome. 

[Flaming_Sword]

You could use Blue Planet ships.  Personally I think those ships are awesome. 

Agreed. However, it might be a good idea to explore other options too. Maybe I should set up a poll or something once I get a few more suggestions.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

...While the Shivans do need their own versions of secondary weapons, I don't think their primaries should be changed too much. Shivans depend on swarms of fighters to get the job done, and their primaries reflect this quite well...

Kosh is right. The Shivans have that hive mentality.

[Flaming_Sword]

Note: 'Complete' means more or less done the way I want it, probably needs some tweaking for balance after more testing

Planned work:

• Ships - complete (gorgon added, but shields and armour heavily nerfed)
• Weapons - complete (includes new toys not previously mentioned)
• Interface - incomplete (unchanged since last release)
• Techroom entries - incomplete (only done the ones for shivan ships and weapons, started intelligence)
• Wingmen personas - incomplete (unchanged since last release)
• Missions - unstarted (planning demo missions)

Possible future work: (feature creep right here, also impromptu poll )

• Leaving GTVA ships/weapons as they are and finishing techroom entries
• As above, but upgrade GTVA weapons
• New GTVA ships/weapons (eg. steal borrow from Blueplanet)
• Learning to make models/textures for new ships

Currently working on intelligence techroom entries, then demo missions before next release (I should probably start numbering the things ). No idea how long the entries will take (since they have to be long, interesting and cover most of FS2 canon and more), though if people really want I can do the missions first and release with only a couple of intelligence entries.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Take your time, Sword. We're patient when it comes to making a new mod.

...and, uhh, you can ignore the rest of the post if you want to.

The thing about FreeSpace 2 is that we go through the NTF rebellion and Second Shivan Incursion through the eyes of one person, on one side. We could use FRED2 and/or FRED2_Open to see the entire campaign from the Vasudan and NTF's point of view, but what about the Shivans? Theoretically, we COULD use FRED2 and FRED2_Open, but that means that we cannot choose our ships and weapons (otherwise the game will crash). With a Shivan mod, however, it may be possible to do just that - view the entire campaign from the Shivan side (although it's bound to be very boring, since we're going to go through the same thing all over again).

[ShadowGorrath]

And your wingmen will die faster than the GTVA ones.

Shivans are meant to win only by numbers. Their individuals are meant to be killed by GTVA's pilots.

[shiv]

Do you need more planets?

[Flaming_Sword]

Not really. I mostly wanted to get the mechanics stuff done, so everyone (including myself) can start flying.

[Flaming_Sword]

I'm currently in the process of making a demo mission. What difficulty is good for a demo (currently "crazy hard")?

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I'm currently in the process of making a demo mission. What difficulty is good for a demo (currently "crazy hard")?

"Crazy Hard" may be a bit of an overkill, but since the Shivans appear to keep getting trashed, it also seems fairly appropriate.

[Flaming_Sword]

It turns out playtesting a mission over and over again to find/fix bugs gets pretty boring. 

Well, I'm getting pretty good at beating it now, at least.

Maybe I'll post a walkthrough if people really need it.

[Woolie Wool]

Note: 'Complete' means more or less done the way I want it, probably needs some tweaking for balance after more testing

Planned work:

• Ships - complete (gorgon added, but shields and armour heavily nerfed)

I dunno, nerfing the Gorgon seems to defeat the purpose of the ship (uber elite Shivan fighter) to me.

[/list]

[Flaming_Sword]

It's still pretty uber, just not in a completely unbalanced way (7 guns, 1000 shields, 100 armour).

[FreeSpaceFreak]

I love your tech room descriptions of the Sath and the Lucy, they got me thinking
I was wondering about the one you made for the Shivan Comm Node...

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Note: 'Complete' means more or less done the way I want it, probably needs some tweaking for balance after more testing

Planned work:

• Ships - complete (gorgon added, but shields and armour heavily nerfed)

I dunno, nerfing the Gorgon seems to defeat the purpose of the ship (uber elite Shivan fighter) to me.

[/list]

Uhh, what is "nerf"?

[Flaming_Sword]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf

[Woolie Wool]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf

The correct article is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf_%28computer_gaming%29

To "nerf" an element in a game is to severely weaken it or otherwise reduce its effectiveness. The name comes from comparing such weakened features (usually weapons) to Nerf guns, which fire completely harmless foam cylinders.

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Gorgon versus Ares...who will win?