[MatthTheGeek]

I... don't see much of a difference, really.

[Lykurgos88]

I... don't see much of a difference, really.

Look at left edge of the MediaVP_2014 screenshot. There is a green fog sprite that simply doesn't exist in the MediaVP_3612, at least not this vividly. You should probably try the Trinity mission yourself, so that you notice how much additional colors are added in-game.

EDIT: I should probably make a comparison video, side-by-side. It's much easier to spot in motion. BRB.

[MatthTheGeek]

So you're complaining about improvements ?

[Lykurgos88]

So you're complaining about improvements ?

Improvement is subjective in this case. As I said, I don't claim to know the opinion of the majority in adding green sprites in a nebula that was previously Blue only. It's a matter of taste and personally I would prefer a blue nebula to be only blue, and red nebula being only red etc... Otherwise I get the feeling that I'm navigating in a rainbow

EDIT: Okay, I have to correct myself a bit. There is indeed a little bit of green in MediaVP_3612 also, but in MediaVP_2014 it is much more powerful. I just captured the fraps videos, it will take time to render and upload.

[mjn.mixael]

Bloom is not an issue of the MediaVPs and never will be. For bloom changes, go to SCP.

LOD 3 on the Ma'at is basically a box with mostly dark textures.  Is this even worth having?

Yes, of course it is. In fact, that's how much of retail worked too. LOD 3 is so far away that it really doesn't matter what is on it, and being a box, makes it the best LOD3 ever. (pyramid might be better?) Keeping LOD 3 allows us to not have to modify the number of values in $Detail Distance for the ship, which is desirable.

[Luis Dias]

So I see the new nebula pofs didn't make it to the new mediavps... that's sad. Probably in 2015!

[Goober5000]

In "As Lightning Fall" I don't seem to be getting the sensor scrambling I usually do.  Did anyone else notice this?

Does this affect message scrambling too, or just sensors?

I used the build 10222 in the Youtube video. Are there any collision fixes in newer builds?

Build 10222 should have the newest collision code.  The collision rewrite happened some time ago.

[Admiral Nelson]

I've been playing through the main campaign with the new mediavps and found a few issues:

• In "As Lightning Fall" I don't seem to be getting the sensor scrambling I usually do.  Did anyone else notice this?

Were you using a debug build?  For some reason not all nebula effects are applied in debug.

[Col. Fishguts]

So, I played now through the whole retail campaign without any showstoppers. There was one CTD in "Into the lions den", but I couldn't reproduce it so far.

[blowfish]

Were you using a debug build?  For some reason not all nebula effects are applied in debug.

That's probably it.  Good to know.

[bcKq]

The nebulas are soo much blue now in the first 2 campaign missions... is it normal? Also the skybox (stars) look like it's more blacker, emptier (not really on screenshot, but when playing it is noticeable)
Comparison between 3612 and 2014:
3612:
http://i.imgur.com/2vZfZMy.jpg
2014:
http://i.imgur.com/9ZmqXKQ.jpg

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]

[MatthTheGeek]

That's called post-processing.

[mjn.mixael]

The nebulas are soo much blue now in the first 2 campaign missions... is it normal? Also the skybox (stars) look like it's more blacker, emptier (not really on screenshot, but when playing it is noticeable)
Comparison between 3612 and 2014:
3612:
http://i.imgur.com/2vZfZMy.jpg
2014:
http://i.imgur.com/9ZmqXKQ.jpg

Really? A slight difference in color?

[Lykurgos88]

The bloom intensity difference is definitely there (especially those white burnt spots are more common) and it cannot be denied. Like Axem had apparently confirmed, the new nebula graphics (background and in-nebula) react more aggresively to the same bloom intensity value when post-processing is enabled.

Since FSU team apparently doesn't want to rebuild these nebula graphics, do I have to assume that I have to make a new topic in SCP main subforum to rediscuss the default value of Bloom intensity? Because 75 is way too much for MediaVP_2014 and many newbie players probably don't know how to change it.

[mjn.mixael]

You still have your order of operations wrong. Bloom is not the baseline option to which graphics are made to work with. The graphics are the baseline and you alter your bloom to work with them.

[Lykurgos88]

You still have your order of operations wrong. Bloom is not the baseline option to which graphics are made to work with. The graphics are the baseline and you alter your bloom to work with them.

That's exactly what I was saying Notice the word "react".

Now there is 2 ways to resolve this bloom difference.

1) Either revert back to 3612 nebulas (which is very unlikely in this case)
2) Greatly lower the default bloom value in SCP builds

Now the question is, how far down we should go? 75 was a good value with mediaVP3612, but horrible with mediaVP2014. I think a value of "15" is more suitable for mediaVP_2014 nebulas. Does anyone else agree?

[mjn.mixael]

If you understood what I said, you wouldn't even ask to revert to the 3612 nebulas.

Not only that, as I said the new nebulas are better, brighter, and more accurate to their original images.



Left is 2014, right is 3612. Which one do you want?

[Lykurgos88]

I understand perfectly what you said, but I think it's you who don't understand what I am saying. The new nebula, that has a higher quality, produces "white burnt spots" when enhanced by a default bloom intensity post-processing value of "75" and the older worse quality nebula does NOT produce overly saturated or white burnt spots when enhanced with default bloom post-processing.

Conclusion: The new nebula looks worse in the eye, because a lot of pixel information is lost in greatly exaggerated saturation created by the post-processing. It's a genuine image quality problem.

So, as I said, something needs to be done. Otherwise MediaVP2014 nebulas become a downgrade for players who use default post-processing settings.

For players that DON'T use post-processing, 2014 version is of course better.

EDIT: Spelling

EDIT2: Addition

[Lykurgos88]

Alright, I promise this is my last post in this thread about bloom. I'm getting tired of it myself too

A comparison of a mild case blue nebula.

3612


2014


So as you see, an intensity of 75 effectively destroys the pixel details of MediaVP_2014 nebula that are still present in MediaVP_3612. 2014 might have a better resolution, but it won't matter if a larger portion is saturated by post-process bloom. So in the end, 3612 version is easier on the eye. This is not even the worst case. In some nebula backgrounds, MediaVP_2014 has white spots where MediaVP_3612 doesn't.

So this is why I think lowering the default value of bloom intensity is needed.

[mjn.mixael]

I understand perfectly what you said, but I think it's you who don't understand what I am saying. The new nebula, that has a higher quality, produces "white burnt spots" when enhanced by a default bloom intensity post-processing value of "75" and the older worse quality nebula does NOT produce overly saturated or white burnt spots when enhanced with default bloom post-processing.

Yes, that's how bloom works. More pixels at a higher value will bloom more.

Conclusion: The new nebula looks worse in the eye, because a lot of pixel information is lost in greatly exaggerated saturation created by the post-processing. It's a genuine image quality problem.

Could mean either one here.. so let's hit both. It is not a problem in the image quality of the nebulas. And really it's not a problem in image quality in what is rendered by FSO with bloom. I think what you mean is that it's a problem with the final overall look. Fine, with 75 bloom... you think it looks bad. That has been clearly established.

So, as I said, something needs to be done. Otherwise MediaVP2014 nebulas become a downgrade for players who use default post-processing settings.

Then change your settings. There, simple. Hell, the new launcher has radio buttons for even the most intellectually challenged person to change their lighting settings. No idea if that affects bloom, though.. but I'm sure it could pretty easily.

For players that DON'T use post-processing, 2014 version is of course better.

Great. Wonderful. FSU is not in the business of making the mod work for every commandline setting one can think of... or even default. We upgrade the assets. Make sure it all works and then put it out there for you all to use. You all can, and do, have all kinds of lighting and bloom settings. Change them, tweak them, or whatever to your liking. And if you really want to keep making a big deal out of -bloom 75, as I've said before, SCP's board is elsewhere. However, you will need to make a convincing argument as to why MediaVPs 2014 is the mod that gets to define what the default settings are. There are so many mods and TCs that use FSO. How about Diaspora? Does -bloom 75 work for them? Why does MediaVPs 2014 get to be the standard to change that on them if it's working for them? What about TBP? Blue Planet? Inferno?

This is not and never will be a case of "2014 doesn't work with my light settings from 3612, please someone fix it." You fix it with your own commandline. That's why they are there.