[Kosh]

Like I said: Someone here who has some idea of what they are doing should hack the drivers. Then they (theoreticly) can restore shinemapping in them. We could have our own FSO Omega drivers.

[Ace Pace]

Originally posted by Xelion
This sounds like a sporadic case, this really doesn't draw any conclusions to anywhere, try the latest Omega driver.

Orginally posted by deep_eyes
my shine maps work... and im on a 7500.....

As I've said above, it happens to all cards based on the R300, which means 9xxx cards and the R400 x800 (its based on the R300).

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Turambar
too bad bobbau wont write any nvidia optimization thingys into any code

[color=66ff00]Simple way to fix this Turambar, pay him. Then I'm sure he'll be very happy to work on something that he doesn't have a problem with himself.

Or you could learn to code and fix it yourself.

Please have a little bit of respect for someone who has shared his work with us for free.
[/color]

[Flipside]

In all honesty, I don't think Turumbar was being malicious in his defence Maeg, I think he was just poking fun because of the ATI smoothing optimisation that Bobb included, it's just been taken a little out of proportion.

Turumbar, I'd suggest you use or at the end of a joke, sometimes things don't sound the same in peoples heads when they read it as it did when you typed it, so the smileys help avoid confusion like this

[Lightspeed]

That's quite true

Smileys can change the whole character and interpretation of a post

[Woolie Wool]

Heh.

Heh.

Heh.

The same three letters, yet each one is completely different. Smileys really do affect how a post is interpreted to a huge degree.

[Turambar]

Or this one:

Heh:blah:
or
heh:doubt:

in the future i will use similies to clarify my opinion

yeah, I am taking computer Science 1 and 2 this year, and I'll start learning and stuff, but it'll be a while before i join the ranks of SCP coders, I'm content photoshopping things for now

I bow to Bobbau's skillz

[Cyker]

Love and Peace!

(Must... stop... watching... Trigun...)

[Gregster2k]

"This sounds like a sporadic case, this really doesn't draw any conclusions to anywhere, try the latest Omega driver. "

Ummmm...to be good, it should work on OFFICIAL drivers. I ain't using Omega Drivers, i prefer things the way they are, from my experience "tweaked drivers" only give a VERY small performance boost in my games

Originally posted by Bobboau
I'm sure were not the only people affected by this, and if we were ATI isn't going to do a damned thing for a small open source project that has, maybe, 100 users.
this problem will be fixed when we move on to the programable pipeline rather than relying on the fixed function as we have been for some time.

The only USEFUL information in this post *skimread the remainder* ---- At least we know that the pipeline thing should be the answer. Get back on topic please... if I'd known that this would cause this much of a flamewar, i would have just PMed Bob instead. Of course, I didnt think of that alternative until AFTER this happened...doh.

Then again, this Off Topic stuff here...was interesting to say the least. I mean look at this, we've gone from my post's content and Bob's very informative and simple answer, to you all having a discussion over the proper use of SMILEY FACES...


*hides in a corner*

[CP5670]

Is this issue still here? I have seen people complaining about such things with more well known games too, where older drivers worked fine and newer ones do not work at all. It doesn't look like ATI is doing anything about it, although it doesn't hurt to try to contact them. I seem to remember Bobboau once saying that switching to hardware shader based lighting for FSO will solve this problem. Oh well, at least I don't have to worry about it.

[JR2000Z]

You can summit the problem at their website.

There's a greater chance for them to fix it if you give them detailed step-by-steps of what to change.

Like I said: Someone here who has some idea of what they are doing should hack the drivers. Then they (theoreticly) can restore shinemapping in them. We could have our own FSO Omega drivers.

If you feel like re-writing each release....

[Fear]

well... are we doing something?

[Gregster2k]

Bobbeau did say that when they switch to a programable pipeline from the fixed function it should get fixed...I believe I know what that means...the difference between card-specific instruction and universal works-on-any-video-card instruction or whatnot

oh and here's something interesting I accidentally ran a 2003 dated build recently and the shinemaps were working on Catalyst 4.8...so therefore I say...WE NEED that programmable pipeline thingy...only question is when, and only a select few can answer that =P

[Psychonaut]

You can say, i´m ridiculous, particularly since the "tone" has become a bit harsh in here (do we talk ´bout a computergame??).
But the best solution for me, until the big code-change has come true, is DUAL-BOOT. Actually i´m playing 3 games (FSO, Flashpoint, Doom3). Because of the bad framerate in Doom under 4.4 i´ve decided to install win again to another partition.  It costs a bit time (about 1 hour) but much less than searching the forum up and down again and again and again just to get some tipps like "as time goes by". And it costs much less time than getting an exam in IT or reading (and understanding) several C++ books.  <- as you can see, the last was a joke

btw: @Maeglamor I thought Turambar is involved in some really nice FSO-projects, isn´t he.

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by IceFire

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he's saying that you aren't going to be like some game developers or nVidia themselves and write image quality degrating "optimizations" into the game code for the purposes of boosting scores and getting more people to buy one card instead of the other.

RE: 3DMark 2003 snafu regarding driver optimizations by nVidia (and to a lessert extent and somewhat by accident ATI).

I think that was the direction that was going in...and that you were being complemented for integrity of character

Anyways, I'd love to see this issue resolved.  Cat 4.7 is where I need to be to play my other games.  FSO works just fine but no shinemaps indeed.

Which is why the next gen nvidia graphics cards run Doom 3 faster, and, handle some of it's graphics better (mainly lighting and shading, and bump mapping...wait is there much else in Doom3 that makes it look like it does?), than ATIs cards?

FYI:
I'm using a ATI Graphics card.
Neither a fanboi of either group.
Simply posting on experience based on my two mates PCs:
One with 6800 GT, one with X800 Pro ViVo (well....XT Plat.... cough)

[Ace Pace]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta


Which is why the next gen nvidia graphics cards run Doom 3 faster, and, handle some of it's graphics better (mainly lighting and shading, and bump mapping...wait is there much else in Doom3 that makes it look like it does?), than ATIs cards?

FYI:
I'm using a ATI Graphics card.
Neither a fanboi of either group.
Simply posting on experience based on my two mates PCs:
One with 6800 GT, one with X800 Pro ViVo (well....XT Plat.... cough)

Its reletivly simple for the NV40 to calculate for shadows, based on their UltraShadow, i'm no programmer, but if I understand the image right image the card sets a max and a min for shadows. So
basicly, what happens is that This:Reguler shadow processing
Becomes this: Nvidia Shadow calculation

Bumpmapping acts the same with both cards, however, shading is optimized for the NV40 core, so that explains it.

But the serious differance is lighting, with Doom3 using the same lighting model for everything (Carmacks "Unified Lighting model") and that model, with Ultrashadow, is much faster on NV40 cards.


Now HL2 will be a differant story

[QuantumDelta]

Originally posted by Ace Pace
Now HL2 will be a differant story

Very true.
And is the reason I'm currently sticking to ATI.

[Ace Pace]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta


Very true.
And is the reason I'm currently sticking to ATI.

True, however, benchs of the HL2 stress test (from the CS:S build, which is not final), show that while an XT can take on the Geforce 6800GT and ultra (Only at high rez), the Pro falls laughably short.

In lower resolutions, I.E 1000X700 and 1200X1000, even the FX can equalize with its equilivent.

[QuantumDelta]

20" viewable monitor = 1600x1200 prefered resolution

[Ace Pace]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
20" viewable monitor = 1600x1200 prefered resolution

You like 30FPS per sec? unless you got one of the new cards that isn't a 6800 reguler, thats what your getting at that resolution, without eyecandy. And thats on a beast of a PC.