Poll

Who would win in a galactic war of Covenant and Empire?

The Covenant
9 (20%)
The Galactic Empire
36 (80%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire  (Read 15029 times)

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Offline S-99

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Hmm the universe vs. universe thingy again. It is pointless to actually talk about such things, but the Covenant and the Empire have more in common than Shivans, plus people will debate this **** anyway for the sake of it. Covenant has plasma weapons, Empire has lasers on an extremely destructive level, both have electro dynamic shielding, both have super-luminal modes of travel to get them anywhere they need in a galaxy very fast that doesn't require jump nodes.
With all of these commonalities why not debate it. After that like the covenant, the empire also has specialized troops for snow, jungle, flying ships, operating other war machines.
When it comes to land attack, the empire has much better land vehicles. I don't really recall anything the covenant had for land assault besides a ship in orbit to really compare to the size of anything in the empires AT vehicles.
Then there comes plasma weapons that the covenant has. Would plasma weaponry overwhelm the empire?
Maybe and maybe not, the lasers in star wars are depicted as very destructive, reliable, and just plain damn powerful. The covenants plasma weapons are depicted in pretty much a similar sense (except for destroying planets..for the moment i think this can be let go).
Then there's the covenants plasma blades, very equal in performance to a lightsaber (does everyone have to rip ideas from star wars to make a new sci fi universe).
The empires dark jedi have a mastery of the much more powerful side of the force. Likely said, Darth vader i don't think could be countered by anything the covenant had to offer, not to mention all of the other powerful dark jedi and sith that exist within the empire. After that is storm troopers. Storm troopers are effective, they work anywhere, and they work great, but they were mainly developed as a measure of superiority over droids and meant to counter droids. After that storm troopers remain a good universal army to protect or counter anything, but the clones usually go into battle seeking and following orders only (that's all they were meant to do really...like i said they clones are superior to droids and were a great way to counter them in the clone wars). Pretty much what is superior to a clone soldier is a battle hardened actual individual, that is what the covenant has over storm troopers.
Another thing to consider is storm trooper effectiveness. Storm troopers are very powerful when recieving orders from someone who has a mastery in the force. Storm troopers get even more effective when you have a jedi or dark jedi fighting beside them. If you integrated force masterers into the storm trooper population per every so amount of storm troopers that would be great.
The covenant still has armies of battle hardened or at least eager to fight troops with a wrath, after that covenant troops do come equipped with personal shielding or at least a shield of some kind, storm troopers just have armor that can be pierced with a laser blast. Another thing is i don't really see a covenant hand held plasma blaster being anymore powerful than a storm trooper blaster. Covenant  have sticky grenades which would have an interesting advantage, but empire has grenades also (those thermal ones) which aren't sticky, but still a ballistics quality to the empire anyway.
Another thing is that the empire can keep pumping out clones like nothing. The covenant has tons and tons of troops itself, but those troops aren't clones, they are troops enough to at least be able to think for themselves, and then something in the works of a civil war could happen because someone had a difference of opinion or believed in something else.
The empire on the other hand wouldn't suffer that with storm troopers, storm troopers die, mass clone more of them is what that means, and as many as you wish.
Maybe the empire could possibly annoy, or even make the covenant get tired after a bit storm troopers, that's if the empire had ridiculous nonstop stormtrooper onslaughts. Then again, the covenant has enough of an edge to overtake in swift speed.

There's really only two aspects that make the empire better, which is all of their war machines(things from land vehicles to all of the different varieties of ties to the deathstar) and dark jedi/sith(covenant couldn't overpower the force).
With all of this review, i would say that the empire is technologically superior, but given the ineffectiveness of storm troopers (besides overwhelming an enemy) i'd say the empire better start training more dark jedi, use scare tactics with the death star, and somehow make storm troopers better.
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Offline Wobble73

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
But wasn't the point of the Dark Side of the Force, was there could only be two of them, a master and a student?

The emperor and Darth Vader? The death of Darth Maul left a vacancy for Anakin to become Darth Vader. Or I am completely way off track with that?
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
That had nothing to do with the Dark side of the Force. It was a method in which the Sith lords decided to organize themselves to be more functional after their defeat to the Jedi... Before that, the Sith used to be a larger group, but the problem with that was that much of their time and efforts were tied in attempts to rise in the hierarchy (usually via backstabbing) and efforts to not be backstabbed (usually by pre-emptive backstabbing). So, they couldn't get much done because of continuous internal struggle and stuff like that. After they were defeated for mainly this reason in Sith wars, they decided to ensure the survival of the Sith order by hiding themselves - limiting the number of the Sith order members to two at a time.

By the way, even as the Sith lords were just the master and the apprentice for a long time, for example Emperor Palpatine had multiple spies who were strong in Force and even somewhat trained in the use it. Most of them were given the unofficial rank of "Emperor's Hand" and many/most of them believed that they were the only one with this rank, because Palpatine didn't want his Hands starting the internal struggle that limited the effectiveness of the old time Sith lords. Mara Jade must be the most known of these Emperor's Hands.

Read Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn. Most of the other post-Empire SW books are... well, not complete trash but compared to Thrawn trilogy they suck. Zahn's Thrawn trilogy is nice piece of reading even if you're not into Star Wars, in my opinion.
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Offline Metius

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
The covenant has tons and tons of troops itself, but those troops aren't clones, they are troops enough to at least be able to think for themselves, and then something in the works of a civil war could happen because someone had a difference of opinion or believed in something else.
I can tell that you don't understand a lot about Halo and the Covenant from the way you wrote that.  The Covenant did have a civil war, and yeah, it was partly because of a difference in opinion.  However, it stands that you would probably need five or more Stormtroopers to take down a single Elite. :doubt:

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Yeah, probably. In hand-to hand-combat. However, why on earth [pun not intended] would the Empire engage in hand-to-hand combat when they can blast the Covenant to kingdom come from space even without Death Stars? Turbo-laser barrage FTW.

If the Empire wanted to capture/recapture a Covenant-controlled planet, then ground forces would obviously be involved, but I don't see the Empire willing to do that. They've got enough planets anyway, and they don't much care of civilian casuaties - after all, they destroy peaceful planets as an example and demonstration to every rebel-sympathetic world out there...

Even in the case of the Empire having to take back/invade Covenant-controlled planet, they would easily aquire air superiority with their vast fleet of space fighters, bombers and stuff. What do the Covenant have? Dropships and Banshees? Something unforeseen? Unless they can fastly construct huge amount of fightercraft to repel the masses of TIE-craft, Assault Gunboats and other common spacecraft used by the Empire, it would be really difficult for the covenant to operate.

Hand weapon-wise the Covenant weapons seem to be relatively similar in effect to SW blasters. In evenly numbered ground combat a Stormtrooper unit probably would lose to a Covenant force with standard distribution of Grunts, Elites, Jackals and Hunters. But when you add the huge Imperial fleet to the equation, the Covenant is screwed. They wouldn't have a chance, except for resorting to guerilla tactics like the Rebels did, doing hit-and-run attacks, intercepting convoys, spying the Empire to find flaws in their Death star plans and destroy the Empire that way... Oh wait. :lol:
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Offline S-99

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
The covenant has tons and tons of troops itself, but those troops aren't clones, they are troops enough to at least be able to think for themselves, and then something in the works of a civil war could happen because someone had a difference of opinion or believed in something else.
I can tell that you don't understand a lot about Halo and the Covenant from the way you wrote that.  The Covenant did have a civil war, and yeah, it was partly because of a difference in opinion.  However, it stands that you would probably need five or more Stormtroopers to take down a single Elite. :doubt:

No **** metius.
In fact i believe my only real interpretation was that storm troopers are a disposable army, compared to the  power and strength of covenant troops. Elites have more weapons equipped than a storm trooper does anyway.
Other than that, it seems you understood my fact that storm troopers will never themselves start a rebellion. Covenant troops on the other hand are smarter than them, have a higher capacity, and an imagination. Especially with events that take place in halo 2 when the elites were demoted by the head covenant aliens, one elite namely half your character for the game pretty much rebelled. My whole point is that covenant troops have the higher capacity to actually decide for themselves and even rebel.
 
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Offline BS403

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Meh. The Chozo would beat everyone else... including the Krikkets. The hard part about that is actually getting the Chozo to fight... the most blatantly invincible alien race ever conceived and they happen to be pacific... go figure. :doubt:
The Magog would own all.  They have an indestructable world ship with a trillion magog, several planets link together, and a star in the middle. Plus the Abyss stopping anything from destroying it. Now what could beat that?
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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
(...) Now what could beat that?

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Iä! Iä! Chthulhu fhtagn...

 :lol:
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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Meh. The Chozo would beat everyone else... including the Krikkets. The hard part about that is actually getting the Chozo to fight... the most blatantly invincible alien race ever conceived and they happen to be pacific... go figure. :doubt:
The Magog would own all.  They have an indestructable world ship with a trillion magog, several planets link together, and a star in the middle. Plus the Abyss stopping anything from destroying it. Now what could beat that?

again, borg, magog try to plant their progeny, nanoprobes eat them, assimilate the magog, a trillion new borg and a borg worldship waiting to assimilate more


I'm sorry, the only thing I can conceive that would beat the borg is jedi, and that's because their super small numbers, weapon that ignores or at least mitigates effects of force fields, and their stealth nonviolent tactics but failing that if a jedi got assimilated..... jesus

 

Offline Mefustae

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Q Continuum pwns all.

 
Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Umpf.

From a purely strategical point of view, the Star Trek Universe won't stand a chance, in any shape or form. That includes Borgs and Species 8472. Modern Warfare mostly relies on one thing: mobilty. Now, if there's one thing that ST has always been struggling with his speed. Not even the Borg Transwarp conduits are fast enough: when it takes you several weeks to get from one quadrant to the next you'll lose if your enemy is able to get to the same place in a matter of hours. The Empire would simply have to get there, and the'll have all the time to prepare themselves for any attacker coming into the system.

Now the Q continuum is something entirely different: being "unbound", they can be anywhere instantly. But then, they won't probably be interested in a "puny mortals war". At least, an entire NEW galaxy to explore and to harrass IS fun :) Why spoil everything so fast? 
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Offline Getter Robo G

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Iä! Iä! Chthulhu fhtagn...

 :lol:


I dare you to say that 3 times fast...  :p


But still leave daddy out of it!  ;)


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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I dare you to say that 3 times fast...  :p

But still leave daddy out of it!  ;)


It's not that hard to say. :nervous:

<btw you got those quotes a bit mixed up...> :D
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Offline Polpolion

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
My money is on the Empire. Mostly because I know very little about the Covenant.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of the Eclipse Star Destroyer?

Well, I don't expect you too. All it is is a 17.5km long warship, with a super laser mount at the front, carried 696 fighter/bomber craft, over one thousand turrets, and 150,000 infantry men (crew = 700,000).

C'mon, this ship could kill anything. Besides Force storms.

:p

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
It may be able to destroy planets, but Eternal Cthulhu cannot die. :nod:

Besides, Cthulhu is probably even physically larger than the Eclipse. He is a Great Old One, the Sleeping God, Master of R'lyeh. And he'll likely have a bunch of other deities along with him when he eternally devours the poor people who dare oppose him. Ya'know, beings like Azathoth, Nyarlathotep, Tsathoggua, Yog-Sothoth, You-Tube, Shub-Niggurath, Glaaki, Google, Gol-goroth, Hastur etc. etc ad infinitum.

 :p
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Offline Desert Tyrant

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I apologize for bring up an old topic up, but its better I dont clog this place up with a topic like this again.  Anyways, disclaimer out of the way, the Empire wins, because of their better Warships(C'mon, you think anything in the Covvie arsenal can take down the Executor...Oh ****, not the fighters!), and better ground armor.  Oh, and the Dark Troopers.  So, there ya go, anybody what to ask me about this post, and i'll go in specifics. :)

 

Offline diceman111

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I think this is a matter of good guy /Bad guy physics since in Episodes II and III the clone warrirors hit everything and would thereby win but if you go by Episodes IV V and VI then they cant hit a wall from 2cm away and would definetly loose
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I apologize for bring up an old topic up, but its better I dont clog this place up with a topic like this again.  Anyways, disclaimer out of the way, the Empire wins, because of their better Warships(C'mon, you think anything in the Covvie arsenal can take down the Executor...Oh ****, not the fighters!), and better ground armor.  Oh, and the Dark Troopers.  So, there ya go, anybody what to ask me about this post, and i'll go in specifics. :)

Straight up? Covenant cruiser can take down the Executor. :p Engagement ranges, son, engagement ranges. The Executor isn't effective out to 150km.

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Offline Desert Tyrant

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
I apologize for bring up an old topic up, but its better I dont clog this place up with a topic like this again.  Anyways, disclaimer out of the way, the Empire wins, because of their better Warships(C'mon, you think anything in the Covvie arsenal can take down the Executor...Oh ****, not the fighters!), and better ground armor.  Oh, and the Dark Troopers.  So, there ya go, anybody what to ask me about this post, and i'll go in specifics. :)

Straight up? Covenant cruiser can take down the Executor. :p Engagement ranges, son, engagement ranges. The Executor isn't effective out to 150km.


\
So THATS why the Executor is over gunned :P(500TLs and Ion guns FTW)  Dosent Matter, because the Eclipse pwns both anyway :P

 

Offline Snail

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Re: The Covenant versus the Galactic Empire
Covenant are cool. They control the Halos which are far more powerful than the Death Star, the Death Star II, the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators OR the Sun Crusher.

The Empire sucks. Come on, those 'elite troops' Palpatine sends down to the shield generator in ROTJ are defeated by primitives who throw rocks and stones. :doubt:

Oh, and a few Elites could probably kill every Stormtrooper on the Death Star (I mean how can a smuggler, a desert rat, an old guy, a princess and two droids stand up to 1,000,000 stormtroopers? Huh?).