[Amon_Re]

Ok, now lets get one of the SCP gods inhere, where are my banana's...?

Cheers

[Sandwich]

You all seem to have the wrong conception of the mass ratio between a bomber - heck, even a fighter - and even the heaviest GTVA bombs (Meson doesn't count). Fighters would be around the 50-ton range, whereas a bomb would be around 1 ton, max. With that kind of ratio, you wouldn't even come close to stopping, let alone slowing down anything near significantly.

[Flipside]

I've been checking and Sandwich speaks the truth....

A Boanerges can carry about 17 Cyclops bombs. That doesn't really make them much more powerful than Mk82 bombs loaded on a Strike Eagle. The Eagle would barely notice the loss of a single bomb, though the whole lot 'would' have a cumulative effect.

One effect that could be good though is a table entry of something like 'Launch_Thrust_Delay', which makes the weapon 'Freefall' for a few seconds before igniting it's thrusters?

Flipside

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Flipside
I've been checking and Sandwich speaks the truth....

A Boanerges can carry about 17 Cyclops bombs. That doesn't really make them much more powerful than Mk82 bombs loaded on a Strike Eagle. The Eagle would barely notice the loss of a single bomb, though the whole lot 'would' have a cumulative effect.

One effect that could be good though is a table entry of something like 'Launch_Thrust_Delay', which makes the weapon 'Freefall' for a few seconds before igniting it's thrusters?

Flipside

I'd love that for my Starforce Mod.
Now all we need is an ordinance bay code for ships that drop their missiles out of their undersides.

[Robin Varley]

In the code there is a bit commented out which made bombs/missiles drop down when they were fired, apparently it looked at bit funny so Volition took it out.

As for having your ship 'speed' up when you fire off your secondaries, (or ballistic primaries now), in real life the only thing that would improve much is your acceleration and rotation, but Sandwich is right about the size comparison, the Boanerges for instance is just under 35 metres long and has a weight (well as used by the model in game anyway) of 686, I'd guess thats supposed to be in tonnes, your cyclops bomb is about 6 metres long, as for its weight dunno.  Though having said that, the cyclops shouldn't be able to fit through the 'holes' the secondaries are supposed to come out of.

Anyway, what needs to be asked is, do you really want this feature, personally, I'd say yes, a bit of an increase in the acceleration and rotation speed ( and thinking about it the rotation damp as well ) would be quit cool, I't would be no problem to make it proportional to the amout of current total amount of cargo space divided by the total amout of cargo space.  So how much does everybody think the amount should be?  I'd probably say less than 25% maybe even only 10%  ( in fact it might be cool to have it related to the mass of the ship divided by it total cargo space ).

If I remeber rightly , If you 'fired' off a missile/or bomb it won't actually push you back because of the action 'releasing' it, but rather because whatever the propellant is coming out of the back of it hits you and slows you down ( this would only apply to things that are in for purposes a very low G enviroment).  But ballistic primaries would, in fact normal primaries would too, though both only by a tiny amout, unless it's some freaking huge bazokoid-blaster-from-hell type cannon.  We've already got the shudder flag, would you really want to be pushed back by your firing weapons, I know I wouldn't. ( Though with that bazokoid-blaster-from-hell, mmmmmn. )

Robin.

EDIT: On weapons dropping: when fired, all the default FS2 ships fire them out the front, so the weapons are going to drop through the firing ship, I suppose you could create models which have bomb bays like the B52 et al, or have the missiles on Pylons under 'wings', then you'd have to have the missiles appear on the pylons until they were fired, hmmmmn be pretty sweet lookin' though.

[Woolie Wool]

I was thinking that the drop-down missile attribute will be controlled by a flag, since some ships in the Starforce Mod have missiles that descend a bit before zooming forward (the Talon, Perren, and Fang fighters), and some ships' missiles fly straight. I think that there should be flags so that the ships with missile points on their undersides get drop versions of the missile, like a version of the Trident anti-fighter missile (yes, it comes from Inferno, but it's more maneuverable than the original) called Trident#drop.

[Taristin]

I always wondered why an Ursa full of Helioses had the same explosion damage as an empty one... I wonder if payload could be taken into account.

[Robin Varley]

Errr, I wouldnt wan't to be anywhere near a ship that could be carrying 9 helios when it goes off, KABOOOOOM.

Back to your actual point, It would be feasable, though, by raising this point, would you include the blast radii for the weapons on board, what about shield, armour etc factors.  From a fluff point of view, a lot of the non bomb weapons use just normal or nuclear-based explosives and wouldn't go off unless armed, but the cyclops and helios are anti-matter based so, when the bombs, for a better word, crackopen as the ship explodes they would add to the explosion.

Once agian it's a question of how far do you take things like this, as they say you've gotta draw the line somewhere.

Robin

[Taristin]

*imagines destroying one nephilim, and annihilating half the galaxy*

[Robin Varley]

*imagines the Shivan Pilots Union saying; the only way you'll get us to fly is by remote control*

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
*imagines destroying one nephilim, and annihilating half the galaxy*

[Bobboau]

I like the bombs going off in the ship idea, there should be a flag for it,

add the inner/outter radia and damage of the weapons in each bank to the values of the ship when it explodes
a fully loaded bomber could have the same damage as a small capship

[Flipside]

Possibly a 'Volatile' tag in Weapons.tbl?

Flipside

EDIT : Otherwise a Mymidon carrying 400 dumbfire missiles would make a REAL mess

[Fineus]

Mmm, firecrackers

[Taristin]

Hehe, I'd like to see this implemented.

And why shouldn't a myrm filled with tempests have a big blast? Does a box of 20 sticks of TNT exploding simultaneously not have a bigger boom than a single one?

[Flipside]

LOL Perhaps, but a large number of dogfights would end up with both ships destroyed

And not all missiles are explosive before they are armed. Can you imagine the outcome of taking out something carrying an area denial weapon? You not only get the effect of the initial explosion, but the power of any spawn weapons on top of that, multiplied by the number of missiles. Ouch!

Flipside

[Taristin]

That'd actually be cool to implement on crappy old fighters... Imagine an Infyrno style explosion from the old, out dated reactors in Lokis, and Hercs. :devil:

[Nico]

missiles don't go boom along with their ships or, in real life, planes. that's what all that deal with "armed" is. for exemple, a sidewinder is armed only 2 seconds after the engine has been ignited, iirc. If by some (bad) luck it were to hit something before, it would just, well, not explode
submarine torpedoes are even worse, they can be armed seconds before it HITS its target, so intercepting it at half its course wouldn't make it explode either. all that is about safety.
a b2 that would crash wouldn't ignit 24 nuke explosions
during WW2, bombs were armed by hand, so they could explode if the bomber was destroyed just before it drops its load ( nothing sexual here ), but the weapon dude was supposed to wait for the last minutes before arming the bombs.

[Fineus]

Jesus, imagine some of the fighter supression missiles cooking off... the cluster based ones. Scary stuff indeed.

By the way, if we're doing this - why not take the whole nine yards and see what happens when you add the payload of the craft as well as the power output of the craft together. Think about it, an Ursa has a larger power output than a Valkarye, it should make a bigger bang when the fuel core goes. Right?

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by TopAce
Well, listen, it is complicated

As you probably noticed, your Ursa bomber fully packed with Helioses is as fast[slow ] as another Ursa without any bombs.
I think you should give all weapons(mostly secondaries) an $Weight value which defines how heavy the missile is in kilos, and how much speed does it gives your bomber when it is fired.
Like this:
Helios
$Weight: 2.0
Your bomber obtains +2 m/s when a Helios is fired.
The $Max velocity can stand for the velocity without any secondaries. The $Weight is decreased from the $Max velocity when the mission begins, and the $Weight of the fired missile is added to maximal velocity.

eeehhh .... understandable?

According to true physics, what would be affected (as has been said) is maneuvrability and acceleration rather than velocity, but FS has never been about full physical reality - more about gameplay. I say go for it.