[Black Wolf]

 

Originally posted by venom2506:
waitwait! you say sending a queen in a super destroyer, escorted by 3 lesser destroyers, on their own, was safer than sending a queen in a sathansa, with 79 other sathanas around it, and hundreds of destroyers backing them?

In an invincible super destroyer, yes, I am sying that.

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"What you egg!" Macbeth, Act 4, Scene 2, Line 80

"Young fry of treachery!" Macbeth, Act 4, Scene 2, Line 81

Member of the Tema Al Diablo creation team.

[Sandwich]

 

Originally posted by Su-tehp:
Shatner's book "The Return" was a good read, but it was written before the appearance of the Borg queen in "First Contact". The Star Trek TV shows and movies never mention Kirk and company's attack on the Borg "homeworld" and the Central Nexus computer that was located there.

Erm, are you sure it was written before? I could have sworn it mentioned incedents from the First Contact movie...

Either way, it doesn't really matter: as far as the canon episodes are concerned, nothing in the books ever occurred - they are just as "official" as user-made campaigns for FS2. The only exception are those books that are based on the TV episodes directly - novelizations of them.


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America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.

"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar, the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)

[joek]

 

Originally posted by sandwich:
On the other end of the spectrum would be an object completely composed of extremely long spikes, thereby giving the most surface area with the least amount of internal volume, minimizing the pressure differences.

Hmmm... spiky.... Shivan ships are spiky...  

Oh yeah... also like (yarg! another ST reference  ) the crystaline entity.

 

Originally posted by sandwich:
If that unknown factor is completely removed or explained away in a campaign, the Shivans will become just another enemy. Perhaps more powerful than the usual, but no longer will they be the devil we don't know.

Yeah, but so many of us do want to explain the Shivans. Even if our campaigns do try to explain them away and take away that terror factor, it's OK because we might not have any follow up campaigns, and (most importantly) it's not the official word from  , so they Shivans could still be mysterious because   hasn't taken away the mystery.

Also, about all of this hive-mind, multiple-hives, queen-bees, etc. I'd like to pull over some sci-fi references I made in the FS3 thread.

 

Originally posted by joek:
... You could consider them telepathic, or mentally linked via technology. Where as thinking this would make them "hive mind" as the Borg, it could also not. In "The Light of Other Days" (by Arthur C. Clarke & Stephen Baxter) and the "Forever..." series by Joe Haldeman ("Forever War", "Forever Peace", and "Forever Free"), the authors deal with the idea of people linking their minds together through technology. In both "The Light of Other Days" and "Forever Peace" people retain their individuality, but the mental link can provide them with like an Internet built into their minds. They can talk and discuss ideas with other people in fractions of a second. They can share memories and feelings of other people, while still having their own and their own individuality...

What I'm saying here is that a "collective" doesn't have to be hive like. Imagine having your own personality, but you can look up and know what every other personality in the collective is doing and thinking.

... although... with that idea, being communicative like that would allow for the Shivans to be more coordinated even in just fighter wings. Like flocks of birds or school of fish, they would all be able to turn at the same time and be much more effective than Alpha 1's wingmen  . So, maybe the Shivans aren't like that, or maybe, refering to after the Lucifer was destroyed, they are, but all the communication has to go through a hub to be as effective.

Joe.

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[Nico]

 

Originally posted by Black Wolf:
In an invincible super destroyer, yes, I am sying that.

excepted the lucifer is not invincible at all. The GTA had troubles with it coz they didn't have beams. Now a Lucifer is much less dangerous than a sathanas, coz a couple destroyers can come close and toast it, while they won't even have time to come near the big S.

[CP5670]

The Lucifer also had a special kind of shield though (FRED2 invulnerability tag ), which made it much harder to destroy. I think the Lucifer is a ship specifically designed to go after other species and destroy their planetary settlements. (Vasuda Prime was destroyed by a Lucifer, as was Altair I, and Earth came close) I guess the Sathanas might be for destroying stars or something, but I have no idea about that...

[Nico]

 

Originally posted by CP5670:
The Lucifer also had a special kind of shield though (FRED2 invulnerability tag  ), which made it much harder to destroy. I think the Lucifer is a ship specifically designed to go after other species and destroy their planetary settlements. (Vasuda Prime was destroyed by a Lucifer, as was Altair I, and Earth came close) I guess the Sathanas might be for destroying stars or something, but I have no idea about that...

There's no proof altair was destroyed by a lucifer. Vasuda was turned into a radioactive rock, Altair is a pretty green planet. With only our average nukes, earth would be rendered unhabitable for dozens of milleniums, and Altair was destroyed only (!) 4 milleniums ago...

[Sandwich]

 

Originally posted by joek:
... although... with that idea, being communicative like that would allow for the Shivans to be more coordinated even in just fighter wings. Like flocks of birds or school of fish, they would all be able to turn at the same time and be much more effective than Alpha 1's wingmen   .

Just like Timothy Zahn's Copperhead Corvines in the Conqueror's trilogy.  

------------------
America, stand assured that Israel truly understands what you are going through.

"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar, the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)

[joek]

 

Originally posted by venom2506:
There's no proof altair was destroyed by a lucifer...

No... didn't the command briefing or something (too busy to look it up now) say that there was evidence of Lucifer's beams on artifacts at Altair?

Joe.

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[Nico]

 

Originally posted by joek:
No... didn't the command briefing or something (too busy to look it up now) say that there was evidence of Lucifer's beams on artifacts at Altair?

Joe.

radiations that could be of shivan origin, the lucifer isn't mentionned I think (too busy to check too tho, but I can remember more or less).

[Raven2001]

 

Originally posted by venom2506:
mmh, I wonder where did you get that. If it's what I think, don't be more precise  

What were you thinking about????

[joek]

Found it:

sm3-04a.fsm Command Briefing:

 

I say this because it is immediately apparent that this planet was also destroyed by Shivan weapons. This is difficult to believe, considering the age of the remains, but the evidence is conclusive.

And since the Ancients knew about the Lucifer (and left us with knowledge how to defeat it). So I guess you can assume that the Lucifer beat up Altair... although you know what happens when you assume.  

Joe.

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[Nico]

 

Originally posted by joek:
Found it:

sm3-04a.fsm Command Briefing:

 And since the Ancients knew about the Lucifer (and left us with knowledge how to defeat it). So I guess you can assume that the Lucifer beat up Altair... although you know what happens when you assume.  

Joe.

How do you know they knew about the Lucifer (hehe)? They talk about a capship with shields. As far as I know, we may know only 1% of all the shivan ship classes.

[CP5670]

 

And since the Ancients knew about the Lucifer (and left us with knowledge how to defeat it). So I guess you can assume that the Lucifer beat up Altair... although you know what happens when you assume.  

LOL you are just like me; after reading venom's post I was searching through FS1 command briefings, the last ancients movie and the FS2 ancients animation for almost half an hour. I had typed up my post but the stupid IE froze before I got a chance to post it and I had to get off the computer then, so I decided to hold off on it.

[Grey Wolf]

 

Originally posted by CP5670:
Could the Shivans be a completely different non-biological form of life, yet unknown to man? (possibly mechanical but replicating)

Horta!

[joek]

 

Originally posted by venom2506:
How do you know they knew about the Lucifer (hehe)? They talk about a capship with shields. As far as I know, we may know only 1% of all the shivan ship classes.

Yeah. Cause you could also think that they Altair was the furthest Ancients outpost (the one they thought would be least destroyed by Shivans), and so there they put all the info they learned about the Lucifer--which only destroyed their homeworld. From FS1, we see the Lucifer only going after home worlds (with the occasional blast into an Arcadia and Orion). So sure, maybe it was other non-Lucifer ships that bombarded other Ancient worlds. I could imagine that.

Joe.

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[Zeronet]

Say the ancients built a self-sustaining ship could they do a intrasystem jump to some remote part and hide?

[Anaz]

I am ignored rather fluently aren't I?

[Tar-Palantir]

We've never seen Altair have we (at least on in an offical mission)? So who's to say that it isn't a brown lifeless mess?


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'The more women there are about, the softer a wise man steps.' Saying in Arad Doman.

'Well, since the whole loaf won't be mine, I will settle for whatever slices fall my way.' - Mazrim Taim

Why not visit the Time of Change website? Well once I get back up that is.

[Nico]

 

Originally posted by Tar-Palantir:
We've never seen Altair have we (at least on in an offical mission)? So who's to say that it isn't a brown lifeless mess?

it's shown in a CB anim, if I remember well, and it's a pretty blue and green planet, just like ours  

[Setekh]

And yet, we know that it got toasted by the Lucifer- errr, by some Shivans. I wonder what kind of damage would be detectable after so very long (8k years?) that distinguished it as Shivan battle scars.