[mjn.mixael]

I had tossed around this idea for a few years, never really getting around to it. While looking at released assets, I found Oddgrim's Scarab. The Scarab is not yet in the FSPort MediaVPs (Managed by Goober, not FSU). This might be because the model and textures are actually in retail FS2 and thus should technically be in FSU despite not actually being tabled. So this of course reminded me of my idea.

I propose that the FSU MediaVPs start carrying canon FS1 assets. We can include the models, textures, and a table entry with +nocreate. Mods can then make use of these assets very simply by including a couple lines in their own ships.tbl. The advantages are clear for mods that make use of both FS1 and FS2 assets. It can make their own modpacks much smaller and unifies updating these assets across the board. This would not necessarily replace the FSPort MediaVPs because FSPort makes a lot more changes to a lot of assets that are not exclusive to FS1... thus it's separation.

Give me your thoughts and tell me why this should or shouldn't happen.

List of assets that would be added.

Apollo Valkyrie Athena Chronos Centaur Terran Navbuoy Anubis Amun Bast Scarab (already in retail FS2 VPs) VC3 Scorpion Shaitan

ML-16 Disruptor Avenger Flail Prometheus Banshee Leech Cannon Shield Breaker D-Advanced Railgun (From Silent Threat) MX-50 D-Missile Fury Interceptor Phoenix V Synaptic Stiletto Tsunami Harbinger Cluster Bomb EM Pulse

[Nyctaeus]

Merge 'em. While it was possible for mods to use both FSPortMVPs and normal MVPs in the past via some dependency tricks, I can't reproduce this in Knossos. I ended up with extracted FSPortMVPs assets as separate package. Knossos seems to be not handling well multiple dependencies. Overally shared MVPs would just make modders' life simpler.

[deathspeed]

I'm not a coder or modder or even FRED'er, but this sounds like a win for everyone.

[Nightmare]

What did FSPort MVPs actually change about the assets? Never knew that there were any differences.

[Novachen]

Well, i am the only "No" Vote so far.

Because FS2 is not FS1 after all... that are two different games. And they are two different mods.

And that Knossos does not handle the dependencies well is only a Knossos problem so far, as FSPort MediaVPs are set to accept MediaVPs 3.7.2 only...

You can fix this problem for FSPort MediaVPs... but you would still have the same problem for any other mod with the same configuration.

[Nightmare]

AFAIK, it shouldn't matter whether you use mod.inis or Knossos as in the end, FSO loads the stuff, not the launcher. In case of the FSPort MVPs, it was the last version they were tested with, simply switching to a new version could break stuff.

[Novachen]

AFAIK, it shouldn't matter whether you use mod.inis or Knossos as in the end, FSO loads the stuff, not the launcher. In case of the FSPort MVPs, it was the last version they were tested with, simply switching to a new version could break stuff.

Yes, but it is the launcher that make it impossible to have a 3.8.X compatible mod, because 3.7.2 is enforced with the FSPort MVPs. That does not happen with mod.ini launchers.

[Novachen]

AFAIK, it shouldn't matter whether you use mod.inis or Knossos as in the end, FSO loads the stuff, not the launcher. In case of the FSPort MVPs, it was the last version they were tested with, simply switching to a new version could break stuff.

Yes, but it is the launcher that make it impossible to have a 3.8.X compatible mod, because 3.7.2 is enforced with the FSPort MVPs. That does not happen with mod.ini launchers.

But nevertheless, both were seperate games and also different mod project actually. I do not like the idea to combine that.

But well, it has a reason that there are no other "No" votes at the moment. The majority does not see problems in it so far. So i am fine with it. Even i do not share this opinion.

[DefCynodont119]

Well, on the one hand I'm cranky and don't like change.

On the other hand, MjN's own description of the idea sold it to me already, so yeah I'm on board for it.



Do it please.

[Mongoose]

I mean I guess the concern I'd have is if you wind up having a few hundred MB's worth of duplicate resources between the MediaVPs and Port MediaVPs, when there could be a more elegant solution. But maybe duplicating things is already a necessity for a bunch of mods, which would make it moot.

[Nightmare]

Dublicates should be removed, though I don't know what FSPort changed about them.

[mjn.mixael]

In the end, I don't control FSPort MediaVPs. I'm honestly shocked it hasn't been updated to use 3.8.x.

The way I see it, FSU MediaVPs is essentially a polished community dump of upgraded retail assets while FSPort MediaVPs are an upgrade to a mod, which just so happens to be an FS1 port. Putting FS1 retail assets in FSU, in theory, could make it much easier for other mods to use FS1 and FS2 stuff together.

EDIT: Added list of assets that would be added to the modpack, but not visible in-game using just the MediaVPs.

[Goober5000]

The FSPort MVPs are managed by both me and Galemp, and both of us are very busy.  Since this would make more manpower available, I fully support it.

As I recall, the FSPort MVPs were originally separate because non-FS2 assets were deemed to be outside the scope of the FSU.  Here are some of the things it includes:

• FS1 models in HTL, with their textures
• A few non-canon models in HTL, with their textures (e.g. GTF Angel, the Polaris and Shah pylons, the SF Gorgon, the PVI Karnak, and some others)
• Upgraded FS1 weapon effects
• Models with texture variants, such as the Orions with nameplates (which can now be replaced with ship class texture replacement) and the medical ships (which might or might not be replaceable)
• FS1-style interface art (e.g. briefing screens with the GTA logo)
• FS1-style medals
• MjnMixael's main halls
• Dan Wentz's remixed music

To the extent that the FSPort MVPs actually change anything in the standard MVPs, to my knowledge this only covers the extra model dockpoints required by ST:R.  This is something that would be great to specify with a modular model file just like we have modular tables, but alas, such a thing doesn't exist.

[Nightmare]

To the extent that the FSPort MVPs actually change anything in the standard MVPs, to my knowledge this only covers the extra model dockpoints required by ST:R.  This is something that would be great to specify with a modular model file just like we have modular tables, but alas, such a thing doesn't exist.

Dockpoints in the sense of modeled subobjects or just a couple docking points (and their paths) to select in FRED? The Arcadia has dozens of docking points the retail version didn't had, and I just tried to smuggle 2 more in for the sake of INFs GTExtensions.

Upgraded FS1 effects (perhabs the shockwave under a different name) could be included as well.

[mjn.mixael]

I am not proposing FSU including anything but canon FS1 assets. I hadn't considered weapons, but I should. The rest of what Goober listed would remain separate.

[Goober5000]

Dockpoints in the sense of modeled subobjects or just a couple docking points (and their paths) to select in FRED? The Arcadia has dozens of docking points the retail version didn't had, and I just tried to smuggle 2 more in for the sake of INFs GTExtensions.

The one that comes to mind is the dorsal dockpoint on the GTSC Faustus that is used in He Who Rides the Tiger.  This dockpoint doesn't exist on the retail or MVP models.

[Cyborg17]

I am in support.  This would have actually been helpful in the past when I was trying to mod.  I had to add the scorpion and shaitan in manually, because I personally really like the scorpion, and there's no reason not to have the shaitan as an option for a light shivan force.  I already had the regular mediavps as a dependency, so having these ships included would have saved a lot of time.

(I am of the opinion that a larger community mod of assets might be a good idea, where modders can manually specify texture replacements and table changes, picking and choosing what they need instead of duplicating in their own mod pack. But we're all so busy already....)

[0rph3u5]

Merging them would be useful ... esspecially if you bring ships that "back into the fold" like GTFr Chronos; I always hate wasting time on getting the Port MediaVP data and pluggin it into the normal table entry

however then I think about cases like Nyctaeus' upgrades to the Fenris/Leviathan which have their single-part turrets textured and modeled to fit the standard FS2 configuration, highlighting turrets that are beam canons in FS2 but nothing special in FS1...

[Nightmare]

I am not proposing FSU including anything but canon FS1 assets. I hadn't considered weapons, but I should. The rest of what Goober listed would remain separate.

Everything non-Canon should stay out of the MVPs.
Some of the weapon effects might be dublicates.

[Zarax]

Yes please, this would be extremely useful for unskilled part-time modders such as myself...