[Inquisitor]

We talked about this,  Ithink, but i wanted to pop it out again because a recent post in the "features" thread, which should probably get closed, too much info there as it is.

We're not making a game to sell, so, I think we'd be okay with an MP3 library like fmod.

The advantage I see of mp3 over ogg is that people already HAVE mp3's they could use, and you could have the same set of music for your winamp or whatever.

I use the mp3 player built into my torque build to listen to playlists while playing, kinda nice, have some fs2 mp3's in there.

Any constructive thoughts, the fmod stuff is cross platform, and (while I wasn;t the one who integrated it into Torque) looks easy to integrate.

http://www.fmod.org/

Just a random thought, redoing the sound system isn't even on the current plan (such as the current plan is) but since our code base is in CVS, someone could tinker with it and submit it as a patch

[WMCoolmon]

MP3, it's more widespread at the moment.

[Fineus]

Definitely MP3 Support. However would it be dynamic? That is to say would a different track be selected on the arrival of an enemy wing/the victory of the mission etc...?

It might be an idea to do a bit of an overhaul on that kind of thing - so that if non-dynamic is selected the track playing is played regardless. Mission objects, friendly/enemy ship warp ins are denoted by a bleep similar to a missile lock or something like that... I think it'd be a lot more continuous that way.

Also, could we change tracks in game? Perhaps if not directly in game we could add an options screen to the interface alongside the control binding, video controls, sound controls etc...? It could load shortcuts/MP3s and (assuming they're eilgable) display them on screen to by organised/selected by the player along with options to repeat track, repeat list and play at random...

[Alikchi]

I want it mostly for the file compression; I have a 3.7 meg MP3 that I want as mainhall music. However, when converted to WAV, it's 40 megs. Ouch.

[IceFire]

I want it mostly for the file compression; I have a 3.7 meg MP3 that I want as mainhall music. However, when converted to WAV, it's 40 megs. Ouch.

Compress it using ADPCM compression (Goldwave and others list it).  It'll be closer to 4.0mb than 40mb.

[Inquisitor]

mp3's just seem popular, there are a number of reasons people favor ogg. One of the chief ones, is licensing mp3 when you make a commercial product.

This isn't a commercial product, so I think we can use mp3 to our hearts content, unless there is some really compelling reason to go with Ogg.

http://www.vorbis.com/

[Zarax]

I'm sorry, but you forgot the real rival to MP3...
Windows Media Audio.
With it's FREE audio codecs, you can achieve results at least 40% better than mp3.
The only disadvantage is that it requires a little more programming to make it cross-platform, but it's not a great problem, you can download from Microsoft the SDK tools for that work.
Any type of CPU is supported, wich means that WMA can be played even with non x86 machines...
Think about it.

[Inquisitor]

Not cross platform, and we are working on a *nix port.
So, it's not a contender.

Sorry, misread that, IS it cross platform? Link please. I can't find anything at all saying that even the FORMAT is portable on the MS site:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/wmsdk_format.asp

Thunder: Yes, all those things are possible, but, I am talking about core audio support, once that is in, any of those things are possible.

For reference, it took someone less than a day to implement MP3 support with fmod, so if some industrious young programmer wants to take a crack at it

[vyper]

Stick with MP3, its more widespread and got good compression ratios.

Problem with WMA - I find it actually does have a lot of distortion.

[Zarax]

Sorry, misread that, IS it cross platform? Link please. I can't find anything at all saying that even the FORMAT is portable on the MS site:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/wmsdk_format.asp

This should be enough...
With it you can even make a player for digital audio devices.
 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwmt/html/wmsdk_wmepak.asp

Hope it helps.

[Alikchi]

Originally posted by IceFire

Compress it using ADPCM compression (Goldwave and others list it).  It'll be closer to 4.0mb than 40mb.

Hey, that worked! Thanks, dude.

[Inquisitor]

Support for Embedded systems
Windows Media support is available for embedded systems running Microsoft Windows® CE or other operating systems. Windows CE 3.0 and later includes the latest support for Windows Media through the DirectX® Platform Adaptation Kit. For embedded systems not running Windows CE, WMEPAK is available as it was designed to be operating system independent.

Hmm, I'll believe it when I see it Lemme poke around.

Still favoring mp3

[Zarax]

well...
just look around...
there is over one hundred of digital devices currently using windows media...
and, if you are going to support it, you would appreciate also the video codecs, wich are the best available...
I've made some comparison tests and i can say that windows media video is about 10% better than divx as quality/bitrate (wich it means that you will get better quality in the same disk space or equal quality with less disk space), with undoubtely better audio (audiophiles here knows how crappy is it mp3 at 96kbs)...

[Inquisitor]

I am still having trouble finding that it actually works on anything but Windows and CE (and CE derivative) based devices. All the sample code for embedded systems is CE and CE 2000 (or whatever they called it) specific.

There's nothing stopping folks from putting somethign like this in as an option, maybe a configurable thing that calls a DLL. Download our fs2_open from CVS and see if you can get it to work

[Zarax]

This may be of further help...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/wmform/htm/windowsmediadevicemanagerprogrammingreference.asp

If you know C or C++ you may want to download WMEPAK at http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/default.asp?url=/downloads/sample.asp?url=/msdn-files/027/001/577/msdncompositedoc.xml

There you will find the code for most CPUs, including x86.

[penguin]

Window Media is not an option, if I have any say.  I have a distrust of Microsoft's so-called "open" protocols and standards that approaches paranoia

As far as Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3, there's probably no difference -- one (Ogg) is free software, w/ no patent/royaly issues;, the other (MP3) is much more widely supported.  But since there are sufficient translators to convert from one format to the other, it really make little difference.

I would normally prefer Ogg Vorbis because I'm such a pinko, but either one would work for me.

[Zarax]

What if someone makes a portable miniplayer usable inside the game?
In this case, would you support it?

[Inquisitor]

penguin: yeah, I llike ogg, but, since this isn;t a commercial project, we are ok with mp3 via something like fmod.

Hell, it could support both as far as I am concerned The integration is just a few calls to the dll or so file. Maybe a command line switch or launcher to "pick your music preference"

Just thinking out loud.

And Z: if someone releases a patch to CVS that adds WMA support, so long as it's properly documented, yes, we can include it, if nothing else, as a special build option, or something, but my thinking for the main exe is mp3.

This is a community project, after all. Find me someone who wants to work in directx and WMA (that will actually solve a problem we have on the list of things to do a DX 8 upgrade ).

Also, this isn't even on the list yet, officially, so, sounds liek people have a goo9d interim solution with wavs sol long as they are using the right compression

[Zarax]

Ok, i'll start thinkering with DX media next month, if i obtain something good i'll make a patch that i will add to my Rise Of GCA MOD...

[Inquisitor]

Excellent