[Stormy Fairweather]

So, after just learning of this title I finished the training missions was amazed and impressed enough to (finally) replace my fried video card and buy a joystick. It should be mentioned that I have never owned nor desired a joystick before. Truly, the atmosphere is unlike anything I ever tried before. "Don't touch the controls until you are told to, pilot."

However, in a truly cruel twist of irony, I am absolutely terrible at this game. In the second mission of the first game you have to take out four groups of three ships, and an optional ace. 13 targets, I have three wingmen, and I didn't get more than one of the kills in ten attempts. I once had three assists. My accuracy was usually between 1-3% (yes I aim at the leading circle, just not very well), but my friendly fire accuracy with my missiles is MUCH higher, up to 26% once.

Heh, I can't remember the controls fer nothing either. I been re-opening the key config five or six times an attempt, and I been mucking about with the joystick sensitivity too. Although I can partly blame the joystick thing on the AV8R-03 being too stiff and light, also it has its secondary buttons very poorly placed. And I still don't know what that green 'T' on my hub actuall means. Yeah, orientation, but what does that really mean in this context? He is orientated at the left side of my screen while he is on the right?

Anyway, don't think this is gonna stop me, quite the opposite actually. I just thought it was pretty funny, and I figured there is no point in being embarassing bad at something if someone can't laugh about it.

[Kolgena]

The T tells you what direction your target's facing, relative to you. So like, if the T's at the 12 o'clock position, you'd know that he's facing you and probably about to open fire. 6 o'clock means he is facing away from you, and everything in between occupies the rest of the circle. It's best to think of the T as yourself, and to imagine the enemy ship as pointing upwards in the center of your screen.

(this was a personal revelation I made not but weeks ago, lol)

What difficulty are you playing at? Very Easy isn't a shameful difficulty if you're a completely new to this kind of game. Shooting skills take practice, especially since the lead indicator is useless beyond a certain distance if your opponent changes directions a lot. Missiles (at least in FS1) are generally useless unless used against very slow things.

[Thaeris]

First off, welcome to HLP! I'd beam you, but that would mean I'd need to find a beam.

 

Next, I'm going to guess that you're not too familiar with "simulators," though FS is a nice balance of involved sim-type controls with arcade playability... regardless... In that sense, there's a few things you ought to do if you're green. First, you might try turning down the difficulty if need be. Next, just keep at it! FS is a great game with a world of moddability open to it (just browse the forums or look under the "Hosted" tab on the top of this page!). If you can get through the training missions and learn from them (believe me, I've met people who couldn't handle it... and that's pretty sad), and even enjoy them, that's a good sign.

 

[General Battuta]

Turn it down to very easy and just take your time getting the hang of it. It really is worth it, and FreeSpace is pretty userfriendly compared to a real hardcore flight sim.

[Stormy Fairweather]

I haven't really been having a hard time of yet, my wingmen are picking up my slack just fine. I just don't much like feeling inadequete, and my wingmen are making me feel like Slippy.

I think it is the joystick that is killing me. It is damn tough to use one, I get the feeling I could fire better with the mouse, but to fly without a joystick... especially since I just bought the damn thing for WAY too much money. Any tricks for making a joystick less stiff? It takes more force to move it 1/16" than it does to move after that to the limit.

Edit: One other thing. As excellent as the graphic system is this game appears to be, why is is the ships and weapons are so... jerky when you are looking at thier stats in your ship selection or that information thing? It looks like it is skipping a lot of frames.

Edit two: Nice touch on the '' smily forum guys. Hope ye got one for 'your an idiot'

[Sushi]

I haven't really been having a hard time of yet, my wingmen are picking up my slack just fine. I just don't much like feeling inadequete, and my wingmen are making me feel like Slippy.

I think it is the joystick that is killing me. It is damn tough to use one, I get the feeling I could fire better with the mouse, but to fly without a joystick... especially since I just bought the damn thing for WAY too much money. Any tricks for making a joysetick less stiff? It takes more force to move it 1/16" than it does to move after that to the limit.

Edit: one other thing. As excellent as the graphic system is this game appears to be, why is is the ships a nd weapons are so... jerky when you are looking at thier stats in your ship selection or that information thing? It looks like it is skipping of frames.

My solution was to get rid of the joystick and go back to mouse. The deadzone drove me nuts, and I wasn't about to shell out the big bucks for a stick good enough to not have one.

[Ypoknons]

Avi8tr is terrible for Fresspace, the deadzone is far too big. I prefer my mouse ahead of that joystick.

[Niue]

You could always try playing sans mouse and joystick... aka full keyboard only. 

Though I feel like the odd one out being the one who plays with both hands on the keyboard (it is surprisingly precise given practice).  One hand on yaw, targeting, firing, and thrust with the other hand controlling pitch, roll, and GSE.  It takes less movement for the fingers compared to large hand movements with a joystick but the downside is that very small maneuvers tend to be rapid series of taps rather than a single continuous motion.  However, there are a lot more "buttons" at your disposal compared to a regular joystick, useful given the amount of commands that Freespace has.

[ktistai228]

Yes, I'm also usually going with keyboard. I tried a couple of joysticks, but for nothing in the world was I able to match my level of precision on keyboard. I hat 30-35% on keyboard, with something like 5-6% on joystick. And since I'm the Tempest kinda guy, not being able to tell the computer precisely where I want to shoot... was pretty annoying. Anyway, practice makes perfect, so you might want to keep trying.
Also, kudos for playing FS1!

[Stormy Fairweather]

Yup, AV8R sucks, I just tried the next mission with the mouse and wiped out three ships before my wingmen took out one. Gonna have to spane some time setting up the key config, but yeah, that joystick os going back tomorrow. Mebbe later I will get a better one, but for now, I just realised how well the mouse could work.

BTW, I looked at the threads in the modding forums, but I couldn't find a code to make the mouse LIKE a joystick, IE: deadzone, move outside it to move, return to stop. But the only threads I found either A) didn't have a code that I could make work, B) seemed to do much more than what I wanted. I even tried to find a program to emulate this. I had zero luck. It was failing at this that made me go and buy the joystick, but if anyone has a simple script that can do that without screwing up anything, please please please post it here.

As for the keyboard idea... I simply can't. I tried when I was trying to get around the mouse thing, but it just felt too clumsy.

[Scotty]

When I read threads like this, I look at my joystick, then my normal accuracy of nearly 40% (and 65%) with primaries (and secondaries), and wonder how my joystick doesn't suck.

[Stormy Fairweather]

Because it isn't an AV8R. Seriously man, the moment I took it out of the package I cringed. It was only my inexperience with joysticks that let me even try it for so long.

[TrashMan]

I too find my accuracy far higher on the keyboard. I can get 80% or more primary weapon fire accuracy on the keyboard (short, controlled bursts), something I can't match with a joystick.

But it depends..the longer one plays, the better one gets, and I haven't been using the joystick much.

[Stormy Fairweather]

Using the mouse is working MUCH better, but the whole picking up and smacking down thing is annoying as hell.

With all the amazing work that has been done on this game, and skilled people doing it, someone must have a simple, neat, working script or whatever it would take, to set up your mouse like a joystick (deadzone, etc), but I have found nothing. Oh, I looked, there is one thread with a script that supposedly does this, but it doesn't work. I followed the instructions very carefully and I am certain it was set up correctly. So I assume the code doesn't work, although I think it is for a much older build.

Cookies for codes?

[Herra Tohtori]

Because it isn't an AV8R. Seriously man, the moment I took it out of the package I cringed. It was only my inexperience with joysticks that let me even try it for so long.

Yep, the AV8R is certainly one of the more disappointing things Saitek ever made.

Depending on exactly how large the deadzone is, there are things you can do to make it a bit better, though. I myself have removed the centering springs from my old Saitek Cyborg Evo as well as my current Saitek X52, both the stick and rudder twist centering springs. This made both sticks much easier to control around the deadzone, since it removes the mechanical "clankyness" from the (IMHO) poorly implemented centering mechanism.

Of course, modifications like this need to be done carefully so as to not cut any wires or otherwise damage the stick, but this did improve the controllability for me, for both sticks.

As to how not suck with joystick - set deadzone to zero in the game, and sensitivity to maximum. Then, try flying for a while, get a feel to how the ship responds, and if you can't control it, reduce the sensitivity until you find a balanced setting.

The mouse is a different animal altogether. It allows unparalleled precision, but like you have noticed, continuous control inputs don't quite work out.

The key to using the mouse in optimal fashion is to only move it as fast as the ship wants to turn. There is a small delay to the ship's movement as you start turning it, which means if you just yank the mouse to some direction you'll lose some of your precious table room for nothing. And similarly, when you have the ship turning, it only turns so fast. Moving the mouse faster across the surface will not make the ship turn any faster.

You should thus play around a bit, and find out the optimal speed you should move the mouse at. For reference, I can easily turn most ships at least 360 degrees to any direction without lifting the mouse.

You can also combine keyboard and mouse so that you apply continuous control input with keyboard, while controlling the fine precision aiming with the mouse.

Also, the thing that will help you most is practice. Keep at it, Ensign!

[Stormy Fairweather]

Not an ensign anymore, thank you. I read you saying that exact thing in another thread whist looking for the mouse solution. Except for the part about complimenting mouse with key board... I might have to try that.

As for the stick... I would rather bring it back and try and get a better one later. Thanks for the advice... I am gonna be awsome at this game, eventually. It has everything needed to draw me in until mastered. Can't believe I never of it before.

[Herra Tohtori]

I read you saying that exact thing in another thread whist looking for the mouse solution.

A new forum member who reads through old discussions to find solutions to problems?

How invigorating!

[Dilmah G]

I agree. And practice is definitely the one thing that'll help you most; although I don't know how you k/m blokes substitute stick and rudder.

[Stormy Fairweather]

I am mighty proud of myself right now. In the Hammer and the Anvil in Freespace one I just earned the Vasudan Alliance medal for saving all three transports. I also saved the first ship, the andromeda that appeared, but it didn't say anything about that specificlly in the debriefing. Heh, the Adnomeda had 1 hull remaining, one cargo was at 3, another at 14. And I had 8. And that was what we all had for that last two skirmishes. Damn it was brutal. I had 13 kills. And two assists. Simply epic, when I finished that mission I was so relieved there were no more, and when I got that medal, for what may be the first time in YEARS in a videa game, I felt I had EARNED that medal. Sure, it is just an image with a name, but it will always remind me of that day I saved the Andromeda.

As for controls, what I did was set my pitch and roll to my keyboard (W, A, S, D), with pitch and turn to my mouse. Just like a jet in atmosphere I bank and climb to chase a target, while the mouse works to give me precision control. And put accellerate on spacebar. It has been hard to get used to, I keep trying to accellerate with dive, but the control scheme is pretty near perfect I think.

Edit - Sometimes on debris, asteroids and sometimes ships, but usally debris, instead of any kind of shading or lighting large sections simply surn white. Considering how smoothly everything else is running this seems like something that should be easily fixable. I have mipmaps, secular, glowmaps and enviromental maps enabled. 32 bit color, trilinear with 2x anti aliasing and 1x ansotropic filtering. General setting on high.

[CommanderDJ]

Well done. FreeSpace is a game that takes practice, and usually makes you earn your medals, so good on you for persisting.

As for your graphics problem, you should probably post that in this forum. The people there will help you out. Give them as much info as possible.

Also, there's this:

Gunnery control, target Stormy Fairweather. Fire the welcome beam.