Author Topic: New Eyecandy Thread  (Read 854877 times)

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Offline Mobius

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Unless it's got AAA beams or something similarly silly, it's not going to be that much of a threat. With the mobility advantage of a light fighter you essentially have total control over the fight with a heavy bomber and can pick and choose the optimal approach and engage/disengage at will.

It's not that easy, really. You'd have to get the bomber in time, before it reaches its target, and, at some point, you'll have to intercept torpedoes. In The Zelos' case, I can ensure you that it's very difficult to cripple 4-5 of them before they destroy their target. Add their subspace torpedoes to the equation and things will get even worse.  :nervous:
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Offline jr2

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Unless it's got AAA beams or something similarly silly, it's not going to be that much of a threat. With the mobility advantage of a light fighter you essentially have total control over the fight with a heavy bomber and can pick and choose the optimal approach and engage/disengage at will.

It's not that easy, really. You'd have to get the bomber in time, before it reaches its target, and, at some point, you'll have to intercept torpedoes. In The Zelos' case, I can ensure you that it's very difficult to cripple 4-5 of them before they destroy their target. Add their subspace torpedoes to the equation and things will get even worse.  :nervous:

That's why you have fighter escorts.  Heavy bombers have and advantage over lighter-armored bombers in that they give more time for the escort to neutralize the fighter threat... heavy shields, doubly so, because they recharge.  Throw in some nice anti-fighter missiles into the mix (as long as they are of a type to be effective and don't take too much loadout space) and you've got a nice healthy mix.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Fighter escort ? In mah Freespace ? UNPOSSIBLE

Let's be realist. The probabilities of a bomber wing to be escorted are 345167 to 1. With generous rounding.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline Mobius

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That only works with regular bombers. Superbombers are a completely different matter.
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Offline Woolie Wool

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Unless it's got AAA beams or something similarly silly, it's not going to be that much of a threat. With the mobility advantage of a light fighter you essentially have total control over the fight with a heavy bomber and can pick and choose the optimal approach and engage/disengage at will.

It's not that easy, really. You'd have to get the bomber in time, before it reaches its target, and, at some point, you'll have to intercept torpedoes. In The Zelos' case, I can ensure you that it's very difficult to cripple 4-5 of them before they destroy their target. Add their subspace torpedoes to the equation and things will get even worse.  :nervous:
You still have yet to demonstrate how these flying bricks are a threat to the player. Historical strategic bombers were devastatingly effective against the buildings and cities they attacked, and often appeared in such massive waves (969 bombers participated in one bombing raid on Tokyo) that intercepting them all was truly impossible. However, the bombers always sustained massive casualties if the attacking force did not have total air superiority, and rarely inflicted significant casualties on enemy fighters without the help of escorts, regardless of their defensive armament and armor, because such defensive features are not and can never be a substitute for the mobility that makes a fighter a fighter. In FS2 and mods we seem the same pattern--sufficiently numerous and tough bombers can create a "the bomber will always get through" effect where you can never prevent their target from being damaged, but the bombers cannot effectively deter interception without escorts, no matter how heavily armed they are. The deck is always stacked in the fighters' favor.
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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They're a threat to the player in that they can force em to restart the mission over and over again, because they're too hard to intercept.

Anything else ?
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
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Offline Woolie Wool

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But the threat to the objective was never the issue. The issue at hand was whether or not they were "easy prey" for the player. My point is that they always are, because with their performance penalty relative to fighters they do not have any way to effectively defend themselves. They can only hope to either take a ton of damage before going down or bull-rush the target in massive waves. For the purpose of this conversation the capital/commercial ship being targeted is irrelevant.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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Offline MatthTheGeek

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It is definitely relevant. If a bomber can survive long enough to get in range of its target, drop his bombs, and jump back to base to rearm, then he has done his job, without ever being a direct threat to the player.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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We're not talking about their overall strategic effectiveness, we're talking about bombers being "easy prey" or not. B-29 Superfortresses pretty much destroyed every built-up area in Japan 10 times over but it was still extremely easy prey for a Ki-84 or A6M without the protection of escort fighters.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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--General Battuta

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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The point is, if they get the job done, aka dropping the bombs and get back to base, that mean they were sufficiently not easy prey, since interceptors failed to neutralize them in time.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Jessnec

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Beamglow Flares  ;7

------------------

Here is the complete version of the big Shivan Beams.
Huge

Large

Super and Mega Huge

Ultra Huge
Classified  :p

This will finish the beam updates. I will go to the turrets.  :yes:
Excuse by my English :P

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Now those glows and beams are nice. :D

 

Offline Rodo

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Huge = :yes:
Large = :no: (try making the glow bigger, as it is now the transition between tube/glow is too noticeable)
Super/Mega = :nod:
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Offline Nyctaeus

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Could you show more pics of the new Odin? I love that ship, for me - only superdestroyer able to contend with Anchorage for title of the prettiest superdestroyer ever made :).

Huge = :yes:
Large = :no: (try making the glow bigger, as it is now the transition between tube/glow is too noticeable)
Super/Mega = :nod:
Agreed. New shivan beams are nice, however the beamglow in large beam needs to be bigger.

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Offline jr2

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That only works with regular bombers. Superbombers are a completely different matter.

The Flying Fortress mentality doesn't usually bring good results... which is why we ended up using fighter escorts for the B-17 "Flying Fortress"... even though it has plenty of defensive capabilities, the interceptors they were up against were faster and more maneuverable, and thus decimated them until they finally got some fighter escort. 

Unless you can get highly accurate, devastating long-range weapons mounted on the bombers that have longer max effective range than the fighters' own weapons, then that would be different.

 
But then you run into problems like everyone running around with Prometheus Frames and at that point it just gets absurd.
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Offline Jessnec

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Now those glows and beams are nice. :D

Thank you  :D

Huge = :yes:
Large = :no: (try making the glow bigger, as it is now the transition between tube/glow is too noticeable)
Super/Mega = :nod:


 :yes: nice suggestion, thank you  :D

Could you show more pics of the new Odin? I love that ship, for me - only superdestroyer able to contend with Anchorage for title of the prettiest superdestroyer ever made :).

yes, but I not have more screens of the superdestroyer...  :nervous:
Excuse by my English :P

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Huge = :yes:
Large = :no: (try making the glow bigger, as it is now the transition between tube/glow is too noticeable)
Super/Mega = :nod:

I agree. The beamglow needs to be significantly larger.
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Offline Woomeister

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Could you show more pics of the new Odin? I love that ship, for me - only superdestroyer able to contend with Anchorage for title of the prettiest superdestroyer ever made :).

It's probably the oldest high poly model we have next to the Lindos. It's about 3 years old so it's not really 'new' :)

 

Offline mr.WHO

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That rear top section next to the engine looks a bit bad. The rest is OK.

An whoever claim that Odin is the prettiest super destroyer deserve to be multi BFSilver'ed by the obvious badass SD ;)