Author Topic: High Poly Moloch  (Read 36476 times)

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Offline Black Wolf

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Sorry to be blunt, but I don't like the new prow. It's too different, and not Shivan IMO - there's no [V] precedent fir that kind of geometry.
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Offline Deepblue

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"Screw canon!"

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Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Sorry to be blunt, but I don't like the new prow. It's too different, and not Shivan IMO - there's no [V] precedent fir that kind of geometry.


Then you won't use it :p
That being said, was there any precedent to the original moloch prow? Is there any other ship that has something remotly alike in the shivan fleet? Mmh?
Thought so.
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Offline TopAce

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That's not bad.
The changed would be more apparent if you posted a wireframe view.
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Offline Nico

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:wtf: aren't the changes apparent enouhg already?

Here's a view w/o the maps, you can't make anything out of the wireframe view.
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Offline StratComm

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I really like it actually.  The moloch was always a bit of a misfit, and this, while still different from the rest of the Shivan fleet, is certainly more along the technology and style of the rest than the original naval ship's bow, etc that was there before.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Turambar

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just remember the moloch from the case, shooting the hole through that Deimos, it must be that badass, it looks too round up top there, keep it sharp and deadly

@DaB, your Moloch looks like a crab.  Not an insult, it just really resembles a crab to me.  I want to crack it open and devour the succulent meat inside
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 02:16:11 pm by 1794 »
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Offline Col. Fishguts

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Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
"Screw canon!"


It looks cool, that's all that really counts.
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Offline TopAce

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Nico, the bulk of the changes have only just now become apparent. The changes on the corridor were very hard to discover on the textured pic.
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Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
your Moloch looks like a crab.  Not an insult, it just really resembles a crab to me.  I want to crack it open and devour the succulent meat inside


...oookay.

Personally, I really like Nico's Moloch Remake. The original never looked good to me (reminded me of a pig, or something). Nicos makes it into a more insect-like ship (those things on the side of hte prow remind me of mandibles).
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Offline starbug

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i like it:D :D :D  it deff now looks Shivan and menacing.
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Offline TopAce

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It hasn't lost its FS2-style, in my opinion. Insect-like Shivans were all around FS2; Think of the Mara or the Rakshasa.

[EDIT]I don't understand HLP nowadays: Black Wolf and Nico posted AFTER I posted this and their posts are above mine.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Quote
Originally posted by Nico


Then you won't use it :p
That being said, was there any precedent to the original moloch prow? Is there any other ship that has something remotly alike in the shivan fleet? Mmh?
Thought so.


Actually, I will, as will lots of others. Assuming you release it, It'll be put in the media VP and nobody will bother making a new, better one because one will already exist. If I choose to, I can replace or overwrite it, but a lot of newbies won't know how.

Personally, I consider that kind of relatively drastic change to be reimagining the ship rather than high polifying it, and reimagined ships mean you're changing the game, and breaking rather than bending canon. That's a problem for me. Given your sig, I guess this means that we differ, and since you're making the model, my opinions probably not going to count for an awful lot,  but that's not going to stop me voicing it.

As for a precedent, it's a V model. It doesn't need a precedent, as it sets its own. Like it or not, that's how shivans design their ship prows. That's not the only way they design them of course, but it's one of the ways. Your new one isn't one of the ways they design their prows unless V says that it is.
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Offline Nico

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3 people saying they like it only two hours after I posted, that's enough to make me think I'm right :)
There, a pic from the back, just coz I liked that shot:
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Offline KARMA

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personally, I like a lot the use of a multiple layers of plating disconnected from each other, and I don't dislike the shape of the grey plating on the prow (but you should work a bit more on it since the profile is too "heavy" imho), what I don't like is the inner part of the nose, the bubble. It is too small compared to the rest of the ship, ruining the overall "elegance", and compared to the prow's grey plating it should fill much more than now the space between the dents.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 02:47:45 pm by 433 »

 

Offline KARMA

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oh, and I'm completely for the reimagery party.
screw the canon whenever needed!:)

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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No.

Absolutely no. It is not instantly recognizable as a Moloch. It's recognizable instantly as some god-awful fugly wannabe.

It's also instantly obvious that you will not be able to place the turrets with the same fields of fire as they had originally, and therefore this ship is NOT a canidate for the media vps, as it would have noticible changes in the gameplay.
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Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Personally, I consider that kind of relatively drastic change to be reimagining the ship rather than high polifying it, and reimagined ships mean you're changing the game, and breaking rather than bending canon. That's a problem for me. Given your sig, I guess this means that we differ, and since you're making the model, my opinions probably not going to count for an awful lot,  but that's not going to stop me voicing it.

I never prevented anybody from voicing their opinion, nor can I force anybody to like what I do. I know my take on things can be controversial, but as you said, I'm the one who made it, and the first criteria for e, is if I like it or not. I prefer the way I've done it to the way it was before, and that's all that counts :)
As for the vp file, it doesn't HAVE to be put in, I surely don't want to force my tastes regarding shivan ships on others, and I'm fully aware that I always did things that many people will hate coz, well, I indeed don't care much about canon, but that's only my view, and I don't have anything against people sticking to it. I don't make a rule of automatically changing the original stuff, I just do it when I don't like it ( I didn't change the perseus, for exemple ).

Quote
As for a precedent, it's a V model. It doesn't need a precedent, as it sets its own. Like it or not, that's how shivans design their ship prows. That's not the only way they design them of course, but it's one of the ways. Your new one isn't one of the ways they design their prows unless V says that it is.[/COLOR] [/B]

Like it or not? Mmh, no, no problem with that, I don't like it, and I'm changing it :D
Suppose, if that moloch ends up in the SCP vp file, I think you're right, regardless of tastes, people would use it, just because removing it would be bothersome for most. After a while, everybody will get used to it, and see it as the normal design, and would do with it, weither they like it or not. So it would end up, in some way, being the official one, weither it's "canon" or not, since it would be widely used, and nobody, I dare think, would want to go back to the original version after a while. Therefore, where would the "canon" factor go?
Take the Starwars case. Up till now, everybody, I think, considered the Z95 to be canon, it was in official ( from what I've heard ) books, games ( games made by lucas art, and so Lucas agreed to it, I suppose, since he's known for eing quite nosy ), etc. But with episode3, he just scraps it, along with everything people considered canon up till then ( the dreadnaught, the victory, etc ) and throws in new ships, like that weird ass 6 winged fighter. You can bet that the next SW games will have those ships, not the old headhunter and others. Canon killed by new canon.
In my opinion, canon does not exist, you just have standards that can be be changed on a whim, when it's handy, useful, or even when it's useless ( there was no harm in using the Z95 in ep03, and not that ugly new fighter ).
If you take FS1, the only ship that had "beams" was the lucifer. No other. Back then it was then considered canon that the demon or the lilth wouldn't have beams. But they do in FS2. They could have made a new mesh for the lilith in FS2, and there would be gone the canon ieda that the lilth looks like the cain.
So you'll argue that if it's not :v:, it's not canon. But since I don't care about canon, and as :v: doesn't have the monopoly on FS design anymore, well, so what? If tomorrow :V: was starting working on FS3, and if I was hired by V, and they took my  high poly Moloch for it, all of a sudden, would you agree to it? I think not, I hope.
So, enough with that sterile canon thing, the only thing that matters to me is: do I like it or not?
Regardless of canon, do you like it or not?
That's all that matters to me.
Please forgive me for te pointless essay, btw ;)

Mmh, that must be full of typos, but I really don't feel like  reading all that again to correct mistakes :p
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Offline Nico

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Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r
It's also instantly obvious that you will not be able to place the turrets with the same fields of fire as they had originally, and therefore this ship is NOT a canidate for the media vps, as it would have noticible changes in the gameplay.


Noticeable my ass. I have the turrets in the file, and save for moving them right or left a couple meters, there's nothing different with them.
But as I said, I don't care if it's in the vp or not. See, I made it for myself first, others do what they want with it after, I don't care.
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline StratComm

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Actually (and I have checked) the turret locations and fields of fire can easily remain exactly the same as they are on the stock model.  The only place that the gaps would even begin to alter turret placement or FOV is for the two turrets on the flat part of the stock model's nose, and there should be room enough up there to squeeze them on top of the seperated plates as it is.  Everything else is perfectly fine.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM