[Aesaar]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people will condemn those who call out toxic behavior as though the drama is their fault, rather than the fault of those who engaged in that toxic behavior in the first place.

All this drama you're complaining about could have been avoided if Goober wasn't such an asshole.  Blame him, not the people calling him out for being an asshole.

[Grizzly]

I don't think so. That'd be one less person managing boards, codes and permissions. One less person attempting to get the website back online in case of hacking or server issues, and so on...

If this is such a critical issue, it begs the question why Goober would choose to instead drag another FS2 modder to court.

If the argument is that Goober's special status as being one of the people who administrates this website protects him, my argument is that it shouldn't.

[Nightmare]

I don't think so. That'd be one less person managing boards, codes and permissions. One less person attempting to get the website back online in case of hacking or server issues, and so on...

If this is such a critical issue, it begs the question why Goober would choose to instead drag another FS2 modder to court rather then preventing the site outage.

WTF that's completely unrelated. Also Goob isnt' the only Admin here.

[Grizzly]

Also Goob isnt' the only Admin here.

Exactly! The website doesn't stand or fall by Gooby having an admin status.

[Mobius]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people will condemn those who call out toxic behavior as though the drama is their fault, rather than the fault of those who engaged in that toxic behavior in the first place.

I'm strongly against toxic behavior in any endeavor of my life.

The type of toxic behavior you're referring to has occurred, however, on two boards of this website that barely have any importance when it comes to the true purpose of the website itself. GD and PD are not HLP.

Also Goob isnt' the only Admin here.

Exactly!

[...] That'd be one less person managing boards, codes and permissions. One less person attempting to get the website back online in case of hacking or server issues, and so on...

[Nightmare]

Also Goob isnt' the only Admin here.

Exactly! The website doesn't stand or fall by Gooby having an admin status.

I think he just was the guy who communicated the issue on Discord. AFAIK he hasn't got physical access to the server (somebody else has) so it's not in his scope.
Also, that happened like 2 weeks before the thing in PolDisc.

[mjn.mixael]

This is correct, but that's a different thing between having talent at modding (elseway MJN would obv be admin) and doing technical stuff. Goober happens to be a programmer, what is necessary (to my understanding) to operate the forum as well as contributing to the SCP. Hence being Admin is not highest form of saying "you're the best dude EVA!!" or being popular, but that you can operate a forum technically; what Goob has been doing since... way before I came here first over 12 years ago.

I would not be an admin for the same reason that I'm not anything beyond a mod of the projects I lead... because I'm an asshole. At least I don't threaten dubious legal action over the interwebs and then delete entire arguments to censor it later. *shrug*

IMO, admins should rarely be moderating. Global mods should be moderating because they actually have to be good at it to get the job. Admins, with a handful of exceptions, just have to know how to do website stuff to get the most site access possible. HLP has a blurred line on this.

[Phantom Hoover]

I'm waiting to see the official response before I start posting hard again but I'm hoping this is a helpful clarification — I have no interest in "cancelling" Goober. I don't really mind if he continues to contribute to the SCP or modding efforts or even helps out on the server backend if he's behaving himself like the rest of us. My position is simply that his egregious misbehaviour has disqualified him from leadership, not participation.

[Fineus]

Also Goob isnt' the only Admin here.

While this is true, as I'm sure many if not all of you are aware - some of us are less active these days.

Incidentally, hello everyone!

Let me preface by saying I do understand the frustration and what's gone on lately and the time it's taken to form a response.

I've been made aware of what's taken place and would like to add my voice to Axem's in reassuring you that albeit behind closed doors - we are looking at how to move forward.

I don't want to see HLP fall apart. I don't want to see anyone wronged or feel wronged in this and ideally I'd love for all of you to get along. This site was founded out of a "love for the game" and while I realise politics is a matter of great importance, this site is not - first and foremost - a politics site.

As for *why* this hasn't been a public debate - few matters of running a forum ever are. Everyone would have their opinion, it'd take forever to get anything done and you'd almost never see any agreement on a course of action. Some kind of kangeroo court would simply not work.

Let me finish by echoing Axem again that something more will be said on this soon, it is being taken seriously and we really would welcome your patience while this process plays out. Ultimately *something* will be said.

[spart_n]

behold, the consequence of political debates and allowing places to debate politics in the year of our lord 2020; emotions run hot, feelings get butthurt, and nothing of value was gained

is there a button where i dont have to see this thread

[Aesaar]

I'm strongly against toxic behavior in any endeavor of my life.

The type of toxic behavior you're referring to has occurred, however, on two boards of this website that barely have any importance when it comes to the true purpose of the website itself. GD and PD are not HLP.

But you're making excuses for toxic behavior when it occurs somewhere you don't care about.  Which is to say, you're ok with toxic behavior as long as it doesn't affect you.

Goober losing admin status and moderator powers will affect the purpose of this board far less than him taking legal action against Mjn or The_E.  Strangely, Goober had no issue threatening them with that.  Clearly, he doesn't care about the SCP as much as you do.

>

is there a button where i dont have to see this thread

Yeah, the back button.

[Su-tehp]

I’m a (nonpracticing) lawyer, and I know the legal definition of defamation (Which I’ll post more on later; I’m at work right now), but if Goober was threatening to sue for defamation just because he got insulted on a web forum, then any competent lawyer would tell Goober that he would not have a case. I’ll have to do more research on everything that happened here, but threats from Goober to sue over this seem like only so much hot air. Not to mention that any such suit Goober raises on this would likely be completely frivolous. Courts don’t take kindly to frivolous lawsuits.

More later.

[Aesaar]

Of course it was nonsense, and it's the first thing I said to him after he made the threat.  Doesn't change the fact that the threat was made, and the thread deleted because Goober just couldn't stand the insult to his pride.

[Nightmare]

This is correct, but that's a different thing between having talent at modding (elseway MJN would obv be admin) and doing technical stuff. Goober happens to be a programmer, what is necessary (to my understanding) to operate the forum as well as contributing to the SCP. Hence being Admin is not highest form of saying "you're the best dude EVA!!" or being popular, but that you can operate a forum technically; what Goob has been doing since... way before I came here first over 12 years ago.

I would not be an admin for the same reason that I'm not anything beyond a mod of the projects I lead... because I'm an asshole. At least I don't threaten dubious legal action over the interwebs and then delete entire arguments to censor it later. *shrug*

IMO, admins should rarely be moderating. Global mods should be moderating because they actually have to be good at it to get the job. Admins, with a handful of exceptions, just have to know how to do website stuff to get the most site access possible. HLP has a blurred line on this.

I think HLP has a rather high share of Admins rarely talking, atleast from what I can see. Goober and Axem are to a lesser degree Kara are the only ones talking frequently; however I don't know many other sites that I could compare them with.

[Grizzly]

is there a button where i dont have to see this thread

If you replace gooby as admin you can delete it 

[Mobius]

I'm strongly against toxic behavior in any endeavor of my life.

The type of toxic behavior you're referring to has occurred, however, on two boards of this website that barely have any importance when it comes to the true purpose of the website itself. GD and PD are not HLP.

But you're making excuses for toxic behavior when it occurs somewhere you don't care about.  Which is to say, you're ok with toxic behavior as long as it doesn't affect you.

Goober losing admin status and moderator powers will affect the purpose of this board far less than him taking legal action against Mjn or The_E.  Strangely, Goober had no issue threatening them with that.  Clearly, he doesn't care about the SCP as much as you do.

Not really.

What I'm saying is that the nature of this behavior, A.K.A. the circumstances of its occurrence, are such that any action taken to prevent them from happening again should not affect FreeSpace modding. As a matter of fact I believe that all of the drama happening in GD/PD should be treated differently compared to drama happening elsewhere.

[Grizzly]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people will condemn those who call out toxic behavior as though the drama is their fault, rather than the fault of those who engaged in that toxic behavior in the first place.

I'm strongly against toxic behavior in any endeavor of my life.

The type of toxic behavior you're referring to has occurred, however, on two boards of this website that barely have any importance when it comes to the true purpose of the website itself. GD and PD are not HLP.

I'm sympathetic to the notion that what happens in poldisc shouldn't neccisarely affect other parts of the website, and I think that if HLP has issues with moderation there it should consider if this aspect of the website is even worth having.

But if you subscribe to the notion that what happens in Poldisc should stay in Poldisc, then Goober threatening to take what happens in Poldisc into court is a complete violation of that policy.

[Grizzly]

It doesn't really matter if you're a fan of mild or strong moderation: Goober's moderation is a massive overreach by anyone's standards, the likes of which HLP hasn't even come close to seeing.

[Iain Baker]

Let me preface this by saying I haven’t seen any of the discussions this thread relates to, so I don’t have a valid opinion on it.

But it seems to me that having a political discussion board on what I am assuming is supposed to be an a-political video game modding site is inherently risky. This is especially so in the current political climate which has become extremely partisan and polarised seemingly throughout the western world. In short, it’s asking for trouble.

If PD didn’t exist, this whole sorry situation probably wouldn’t have happened in the first place. Perhaps we should simply do away with PD completely and remove the risk of political disagreements spilling out and affecting HLP as a whole? If people want to debate politics there are countless other online places to do so, places which are set up to be about politics first and foremost.


Genuine question - is HLP supposed to be a-political? (Outside of PD obviously) It appears to be in practice, but is this a formal policy, and if so, has this been formally stated anywhere? If not, I suggest we should do so ASAP, then make sure it is placed somewhere prominent. This is what I did with my website since I didn't want the added hassle of having to deal with the fallout from member's online political arguments.

Just my two cents. I'll shut up now.

[MP-Ryan]

Hey folks.  Just to reiterate, there is a very active discussion among staff underway at the moment on this issue and we have now settled on negotiated terms.  A public statement is coming once the rest of the staff have had a chance to look over the draft text.  Thanks for bearing with us.  I know *exactly* how frustrating it can be waiting for a decision from other people on a matter of consequence, and we have been working at this as quickly as personal schedules have allowed.

You will likely see a public post later today.