[FireCrack]

Add some random small spikes if the polycount isn't too high, and remember.

Spikes should be triangles!

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by Nico
I require some advices:
I'm thinking of some small design changes, coz the moloch, yeah, is not a bad design, I think it has potential, but there's a couple major areas ( like the prow ) that are quite plain imho. So, point per point:

1) I'm thinking of splitting that prow in two, following the frontal leading edge
( from top, now you have /\,
after splitting you'd have something like / \ )
not sure exactly, if you have something in mind of what to do with this space then yes, (for example the charicteristic isosolese triangle with the three dots in it thats on the front of every FS1 shivan capship)

2) I'd keep the general shape, but completly break the whole smooth surface, maybe by making it into segments, like some sort of steps.
YES _defenately_

3) the back... well, for now, I have no idea on what to do with it. The same "step" method as for the prow wouldn't look right there, I think. But I'm actually thinking of doing the same split as for the prow, on the large pointy part that runs from the hangar to above the engines. Then I'd have that hangar incorporated to the "worm body", and have it diving deep inside it, ending in some sort of shivan hangar, which leads me to ( the dodgy ) point 4):
maybe the back would be a good place to try to replicate the armor plate things on the back of the lucifer

4) I don't really picture a shivan hangar like a terran one, I rather see some sort of bee hub, with cells. I don't actually compare shivans with bees, I just think it's, well, handy to have it that way, you can put cells in there w/o actually having to think about the fighters
Eventually, tho, the hangar will just be there if polycount isn't too high, otherwise, it'll just be a dead end, as usual. I'll most likely choose the ( very short ) dead end anyway, it prevents various problems, like " oh, I have to kill that moloch, let's go inside and pummel it from there".
I have recently made code changes that allow you to animate subobjects based on action, fighterbay launch is one of the suported actions

5) the spikes. Mmh, well, the usual idea is to smooth them. I hate that. FS1 ships were not smooth, and they had much more character. They were angles over angles and some more angles. So I won't smooth the spkes, no, I'll make them less smoothed, in fact, like insect legs ( bad analogy, coz I surely don't want them to look organic, but you get the idea for the shape, it's a broken line ).
Actually, save for the worm body ( wouldn't be right otherwise ), I'll kill any blatant leading curve on the ship, I'll just keep surface curves.
good kill them dead
just make sure that you keep the shape right, you need to make sure it has the exact visual impact as the origonal, eneraly what I do is I have the origonal model and I build a totaly new model just useing the origonal as a guide for proportion and angles

just in the five minutes sence I started reading this thread again I quickly threw together a general very rough scetch of what sort of stuff I'd do. (I also scribled the things I think I did wrong in the inital scetch on the scetch) one of the big things is I think some atempt should be made to put that damned shivan triangle thing on the front of it even if it has to be upside down. lots of sort of steped scale like paturns that have bits to them that end in almost-spikes (from wich longish narrow real spikes sometimes extend). meh, going into too much detail, you know what the paturns of FS1 Shivan ships are as well if not better than I do.

[Bobboau]

hmm I probly should have rotated that, and made my comments more visable...

oh well..

[StratComm]

Hmm, looks a bit like a pig actually.

I'd really love to see some Cain-like elements make their way into the Moloch theme, but I really don't see where it could go without severely changing the profile of the ship (which, as I understand it, is not Nico's goal here).  The triangle on the front really bothers me, because like you Bob I'd love to see it incorporated somehow, I just don't see how it can be done.  Nico, you've talked about perhaps splitting that front plate; could the traditional three-dots shape get recessed into the gap?  I really have no idea how it'd ever work, but it's worth suggesting.

[Bobboau]

like my comments say, I drew that too big

[StratComm]

Yeah, I see that now.  I just don't see how you'd get it in there when there is a ventral seam running through that whole section.

[Bobboau]

well if the triang was fliped so the tip was on the bottom I think it could be done.

[Nico]

Originally posted by StratComm
The triangle on the front really bothers me, because like you Bob I'd love to see it incorporated somehow, I just don't see how it can be done.

I want that triangle too, and I see how to put it, don't worry.

Nico, you've talked about perhaps splitting that front plate; could the traditional three-dots shape get recessed into the gap?  I really have no idea how it'd ever work, but it's worth suggesting. [/B]

Something like that ( and I won't need to put it up side down either ). Just need to find the best map, iirc, that triangle is quite blurry on all the ships .
Actually, it'd be open in 3 segments, because under it, you have a central spike that I don't want to break in two segments. ( picture the sand worms mouth from dune, it's something like that )

Bob: about that hangar thing, I don't know at all how I'd do that... I can't picture any cool looking AND original door that would be used by the shivans.

Finally, I could use the lods in 3ds format too, since I'm modifying the design

[KARMA]

wasn't there the possiblity to switch an invisible poly from solid to non solid via sexps?. I thought it was made specifically for hangars, and I was planning to do it for colossus too.

[Fineus]

Title changed

[Bobboau]

you could simply do one of those iris style openings

[TopAce]

Can we get a wireframe view as well?

[DaBrain]

This is my design suggestion:

[Nico]

Originally posted by Bobboau
you could simply do one of those iris style openings

Mmh, what was the largest ship the moloch could launch? If it's the seraphim, it would have to be a very large iris, and it would need room to open all around it, not on just one or two sides. it's just not practical, imho.

DaBrain: as Bob guessed before, and as I often claimed from back when I joined HLP, and as was displayed by the first mod I ever released for FS ( the SF chimera ), I'm a fan of the FS1 shivan designs, not the FS2 ones. For some reason, they've decided to put spikes everywhere on the shivan ships in FS2, but they were not like that in FS1.  There's no way I'll turn the moloch into a sea urchin

[DaBrain]

Ok, I have to admit the spikes on the top are ugly.

But I like spikes.

Well, I doubt there is a way to make this ship look FS1-ish, without completely altering the design.

[Nico]

To be honest with you, I think it's impossible indeed, but I'll try. At least, I'll try not to make it even uglier than it already was

[DaBrain]

I'm sure it will turn out better than the old model.



*notice to myself: put the Moloch maps on my high-res list*

[StratComm]

We'd all be better served if Nico can finish the geometry first and make a custom UV map.  Then you and LS can prettify the custom UV so it will look uber-nice

[KARMA]

I think that, assuming he'll find the time and (more important) the right mood, he would be able to do an excellent texturing job on his own;)

[Nico]

Yeah, well, fighter style UV is definitively planed
update:

Funnily enough, while carving into that thing, I extruded what looks a lot like a pointy version of the lucifer front. I've detached it an made it a separate body in the "head". That's where I put the triangle thing, as you can see. I've cut the prrow into some sort of geometric shape, I'll work more on that.

From that shot, it looks quite different from the original, so, to avoid complaints:

I've kept the profile view, it's almost identical, save for the dent in the prow, under the "worm" head.
All in all, save from a couple specific angles, like the second shot, you can tell right away that it's a moloch, even with the new front.