[Snail]

I am actually interested in Freespace 1 era stuff and figuring out the original intentions of the game designers, albeit I don't believe there's a more complicated explanation than the one I originally gave (that the game designers set the cutoff for shield size after they already added the shields).

I guess we have something in common. I still want to see those old data tapes was talking about if they haven't already gone bust.

[Solatar]

I've still been trying to figure out the fighter naming scheme. Fighter01 is the Ulysses. Quite honestly, I could easily imagine the Ulysses model as the "first" ship you get, while the Apollo model is a heavier fighter of sorts.

[Snail]

The Apollo was likely originally a bomber I think, it's much larger than some of the other ships. I think the Ulysses was originally going to be the first fighter you flew, but its shape was too unusual, so it was changed to the Apollo instead. I also think the Medusa was going to be introduced much sooner, 'cause it appears in a lot of trailers/screenshots during some of the earlier missions, before it was introduced.

[jdjtcagle]

Oh the joy of hacked armor tables. Even my godlaser9001 probably won't kill it.

Even if you did somehow kill it Woo rigged it to have a superbig explosion. And if that doesn't kill ya, he also added supernova-start with a delay of 0 in all the missions.

* WMCoolmon disables the Cain

LOL

[Col. Fishguts]

As per Godwin's law, this discussion ended on the previous page.

[Woolie Wool]

What really upsets me is not only people bashing Inferno, it's them bashing Inferno, and then asking them to release our models in advance.

When I see people write that, I really have no words at all. I don't know if I am amused, angry or absolutely enraged. If you think the mod is crap, then why the hell do you want our stuff? IMO those people are just being selfish and just completely, utterly stupid. They have no reason to be on HLP since they're just going around making fools out of themselves, taking the piss and giving nothing back to the community. I'm sure these people know who they are.

If you just ask for our stuff cause you think it's cool and would like that stuff in your mod, then that's okay, but people who go out of their way to write long essays about how Inferno is crap, and then right even longer essays telling about how it's their right to have our material and how it's a bad choice to keep it locked away, are stupid. I agree that Inferno has many extremely wonderful models which no one will have until who knows when, but rude idiots who want them in advance should just go to hell and play around with stuff that is released or make their own stuff.

There are more people who dislike Inferno than like Inferno, I imagine, but I see no reason why. A hell of a lot of work went into Inferno, and even if it's got random uber ships fighting other random uber ships doesn't mean that it should be tossed away and never played or something.

I disagree about there being more people who dislike it than like it. The people who slam it are just more vocal, partly because many of them are assholes.  Don't let all those kinds of people get to you, because many of them don't appreciate anything.

As per Godwin's law, this discussion ended on the previous page.

This is the worst "law" that has ever been invented. Please stop perpetuating Godwin's Law and let it rot like other dumb memes.

[Droid803]

I disagree about there being more people who dislike it than like it. The people who slam it are just more vocal, partly because many of them are assholes.  Don't let all those kinds of people get to you, because many of them don't appreciate anything.

Quite true...

---

* WMCoolmon disables the Cain

LOL

"You saved Capella!"
Wait...what Cain?

---
Er yea, shielding the convoy craft makes them a whole f-load more survivable than they are now. It might actually be possible to defend a convoy!

[Solatar]

I tried to get it back on track, sorry.

[Snail]

Well back on topic, if you watch the old FreeSpace Alpha trailer, you can see vaguely that a Cain also had shields.

[Droid803]

Damn, the Cain has shields! Capella is going to go supernova after all!
--
ok, back on topic:

I think initially intended ALL Shivan ships (or perhaps all ships) to have shields. This can be hinted in the Ancients cutscenes where they said that they could not be hurt, etc etc. I doubt that the Shivans had an all-Lucifer fleet. Errr, actually, not so sure now.

[Jeff Vader]

I think initially intended ALL Shivan ships (or perhaps all ships) to have shields. This can be hinted in the Ancients cutscenes where they said that they could not be hurt, etc etc. I doubt that the Shivans had an all-Lucifer fleet. Errr, actually, not so sure now.

Sounds plausible. Or, if we want to look at it from the fundamentalist's point of view, maybe the Ancients sucked so much against the shielded fighters and the Lucy that they just couldn't score any victories against other capital ships, or even notice that those weren't shielded.

[Snail]

Or maybe they encountered a fleet in which all ships were shielded.

[Hades]

OR they just meant the Lucifer.

[Snail]

A more likely reason.

[Droid803]

that too.

[WMCoolmon]

If you stick it all out there for the world to see, you need to expect some people will not like it (some people will express themselves loudly as well)

Quite frankly, the reason Inferno gets negative attention is because someone made the suggestion that it could be FS3, and in many peoples opinions, it doesn't fit

         Some people have suggested Derelict be semi-canon, you don't see people crapping all over that campaign. So what's the difference exactly?

Derelict presumes a lot less than Inferno. It starts out with ships from Freespace 2, and for the most part of the campaign, it does have ships from Freespace 2. There are only a couple mods, the Cypher and that bomber, IIRC. The Cypher was semi-secret, anyway, and it makes a fair amount of sense to have another Iceni-class ship, whether the GTVA was capitalizing on Bosch's design or Bosch stole it from somewhere. Other than that, the events are relatively self-contained and in the background of the universe. They don't go to earth. The Nyarlathotep is basically a giant Deus ex Machina to provide a villain for the story. MTD operates in secret. For all of the epic events, Derelict treads very lightly on the Freespace universe, and there's a lot of room for campaigns to follow in.

Inferno, on the other hand, totally revamps all of the ships and keeps none of the old designs. There's no way for any other campaign to fit in that time period unless they use Inferno designs. Inferno also establishes very concrete facts for the entire universe. Basically, calling Inferno canon destroys any possibility of creativity because you have this huge area of hundreds of years that Inferno has to occupy, if for no other reason than to explain where all of the ship designs went or come from. It also has several irreversible events, like the reappearance of the Shivans (with even bigger ships) and the opening of the Terran node.

Calling Inferno canon is totally inconsiderate to anybody else who's made a campaign in that era and put effort into the storyline because it arbitrarily invalidates their work. Calling Derelict canon doesn't really affect anything, other than create some minor inconsistencies, since it's right after Freespace 2 and things are mostly as they were left, and it mostly leaves things as they started.

Quite honestly some people should show a little more appreciation.
   No one has to like inferno/whatever, but being a dumbass because you've got nothing else to do with your time except to be a dumbass on a forum isn't really helping anyone. And as much as people don't like Inferno, I bet it's fair to say that anyone who's played it has had more fun doing so than they did posting dumbass comments.

Actually the problem is that the people who do show 'appreciation' are ignored. I haven't posted in this thread because I don't like Inferno, I'm not going to defend it (unless someone's being a total tard) but I see no reason to rag on the team. So the implication that all Inferno-haters are mean and jump on the bandwagon with little provocation just isn't true. I've been tempted to post in this thread but I haven't because I know it would just start ****.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Calling Inferno canon is totally inconsiderate to anybody else who's made a campaign in that era and put effort into the storyline because it arbitrarily invalidates their work. Calling Derelict canon doesn't really affect anything, other than create some minor inconsistencies, since it's right after Freespace 2 and things are mostly as they were left, and it mostly leaves things as they started.

     Well, imo calling anything fan-created canon is a crock of ****.
     Even the concept-art based fighters/ships are not even remotely canon. Not accusing you of saying either, but just saying (the concept art during the FS2 credits didnt make it into the game for a reason imo, though people are welcome to model it).

      I understand what you're saying though . . . I wonder however, when something like BWO comes out or . . . if something like the (ill-fated???) Machine Terra, both of which major post-FS2 campaigns will people complain about them? (actually not sure how major MT is).

Actually the problem is that the people who do show 'appreciation' are ignored. I haven't posted in this thread because I don't like Inferno, I'm not going to defend it (unless someone's being a total tard) but I see no reason to rag on the team. So the implication that all Inferno-haters are mean and jump on the bandwagon with little provocation just isn't true. I've been tempted to post in this thread but I haven't because I know it would just start ****.

      That's likely true I think. Most people like their work to get good reviews, but I find that it's the negative reviews that draw the most attention. For me and for my campaign by example, I released 10 missions or somesuch and there were good comments and bad comments, but the one that comes first to mind is one of the bad comments (and the poster wasn't being mean or anything,  it was just his interpretation. And it didn't piss me off either but it put things in a different perspective). But anyway.

       I wonder, are the people who suggested Inferno is canon even part of the inferno team? Or were they just some random fanboys. Personally if someone released a campaign (Inferno or otherwise) and claimed it was canon I'd get a little pissed too. But if it's just some noob fanboy, just pat them on the head and say "never you mind, just go play some more".

[Mars]

The ancients weapons could even have not done anything to ships hulls, you have to figure fighter hulls can widthstand multi-kiloton blasts; maybe Ancient weapons weren't up to the job


now, down to buisness:

Quite frankly, the reason Inferno gets negative attention is because someone made the suggestion that it could be FS3, and in many peoples opinions, it doesn't fit

Yeah, but none of the staff said it. And people say that about Derelict, but nobody gets pissed off at them.

I'm not saying it's good , I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it like it is.

Uh.. acting like that would be at least as silly as the suggestion was.
If I suggested you as the next president of the U.S.A., and someone didn't like the idea, should they come crapping on your door steps?

No but it would sure as hell give them a reason to say "oh hell no, not that bumbling idiot"

What really upsets me is not only people bashing Inferno, it's them bashing Inferno, and then asking them to release our models in advance.

etc...
 etc...
can't express my rage...

I'm not trying to insult inferno I was responding to this:

Exactly.

Even if you do hate it, at least you could hate it quietly...instead of aggravating the team into locking down certain shivan models...

And I was explaining why people hate Inferno loudly. My tone was probably grating, for that I apologize. However, If you took it as an insult when I expressly said: some people will dislike it when you put it all out there, then no wonder you think everyone dislikes Inferno.

Like I've said before, Inferno was not my cup of tea, ie it wasn't something that gripped me for hours on end I never said I hated it

[blowfish]

What really upsets me is not only people bashing Inferno, it's them bashing Inferno, and then asking them to release our models in advance.

That, to me, just says how much better the INFSCP/INFASA models are compared to INFR1.

[Mars]

You might want to use snail's original post