[IceFire]

Was it used in game? High Noon it used LRBGreens, IIRC.

Yep...they used this weapon in High Noon.  In other missions not so much.  If you modify a mission outside of that where the Colossus engages in ship to ship combat...it wipes everything out.

[S-99]

Hmmm  yes, most definitely **** the idea of juggernauts. The shivans have tons of them, and pretty much perfected them, they have way too much forward firepower. Ares III pointed out a great thing, **** juggs, why not make super destroyers. Personally i still find the lucifer intimidating and full of awe and glory even if the damn thing is unshielded. Plus the lucifer in fs2 has enough power already. Watching the fs2 lucifer in action in derelict was confirmation enough. Besides the fredding put into the missions of derelict, the fs2 lucifer showed off that it could take a ****load of a beating and scare the **** out of you so you want to run away when the lucifer starts blasting out of its docking rings
When the lucy started whipping out with its beams in derelict where it undocks itself that scared the **** out of me. But like obviously in the future the gtva will have developed more efficient beams, and shielding a destroyer largely doesn't matter for say a ship like the lucifer. The gtva didn't really learn a lesson from juggs. They just found out all of their other ships were completely awesome except for the colossus. The colossus was never a folly at all, not even to other juggernauts, the gtva simply thought it had built a ship much bigger than what the shivans had to offer (i mean the shivans pretty much through everything they had at the gtva minus ravanas and sathi). Hell, why wouldn't the shivans throw in more lucifers whether they're shielded or not? With that type of thinking the only jugg in existence to the gtva eats smaller ships for lunch is great logic. Too bad they had no foretelling of shivan juggs. Luckily enough for a sathanas, is that it's size is important for it's unique purpose. I mean a sath isn't just a forward baring beam rig that's oversized (i mean if a sath was relied on for it's forward beams like that, the shivans would be more intelligent to scrap saths for a whole bunch more lucys). The sath is a unique weapon with it's four forward arms using beams as something you could call an afterthought purpose. The sath is a weapon meant to be combined with other saths to be a star buster and pretty much be nothing else, saths aren't very heavily armed. They're probably that big to house a huge ass power core, and mainly the size of the jugg to create huge ass subspace fields that disrupt a star.
But since the shivans did have juggs because shivans like to nuke stars, something that's really not in the gtvas head as an offensive move, pretty much that made the colossus a failure.
Since the gtva doesn't need saths, making another one would truly be a folly, unless it would had one particular unique purpose that made it viable to have one or more.
Super-destroyers is the way to go for the gtva if they're interested at all in making bigger ships. If the gtva make a super destroyer that should probably be the terrans. The terrans need a stronger destroyer, and that could be supplemented by making super destroyers as the next line up, and consider hecates as light destroyers (i really don't see the hecate being phased out anytime soon, it's not composed of aging great war systems and technology, and therefore is probably a lot easier to mod and retrofit the damn thing with new technology, unlike say a great war destroyer that the vasudans have that doesn't work that great with new beam weaponry(tech description classification) and i'm sure the gtva is just waiting for orions to be moffballed so they don't become more expensive to change than ever before...and yes of course the gtva will be building new ship designs too).
The vasudans on the other hand i don't think they'd need to make their own super destroyer. The hatshepsut class is more than powerful enough (i guess this is where the vasudans would be considered having a heavy destroyer and the terrans having a light one).
But yeah, pretty much the gtva shouldn't make anything bigger than a super destroyer, it's not necessary. Another bonus for designs like the hecate is that, in fs2 the hecate was really new, there wasn't that many of them at all, there's still time to augment the hecate design, as in the shivan second incursion the gtva should really consider the hecate light destroyer a beta test Pretty much after the second shivan incursion(the beta test) the gtva would probably classify the hecate as a light destroyer (that's the main reason i do).

[Snail]

Not to annoy you or anything, but I hate long posts or PMs. FSFreak sent me a lot.

The FS2 Lucy uses SReds, whereas the Derelict Lucy (Nyarlathotep) uses BFReds. The Nyarlathotep also has regenerating armor. Your view of Saths is my view as well, so I agree with that. The BFReds were simply added bonus for having such a large reactor/energy weapon.

The GTVA should make either Superdestroyers, or small ships such as Corvettes armed with a rapeload of BGreens (monitors). They should also use uberbombers packed with (viva la) uberbombs. Carriers, not superbig lumbering beam packing Juggernaut wannabe's, but little ships, say 1.5km dedicated to carrying fighters, bombers, etc. Also developing a Mjolnir class weapon capable of defending itself would also be a good idea IMO. Strike destroyers (destroyer class vessels with more firepower than usual, or normal destroyers with just all their forward firepower mounted forward) too. They rock.

[S-99]

Sorry it was long because i knew i hit something big. But yeah, the vasudans hatshepsut is a lot more powerful and durable than the hecate. The vasudans should create a light destroyer as well, and the terrans should create a heavy destroyer. Because you really don't want to put a hecate into the shivan nebula, and since the psamtik didn't have much of a presence there in the fs2 campaign based on how much you were around it since you were serving on a hecate. I mean obviously terran and vasudan capships in fs2 are complementing each other. But still, you get the idea, having a terran light and heavy destroyer would put the hecate in situations where it would be more feasible and then stuff like a terran heavy destroyer in the shivan nebula probably wouldn't have gotten disabled. The hecate does fill more of a carrier role, wtf was it doing in the shivan nebula? Something like a hecate complementing a hatshepsut would be really powerful, then again idk if the hecate has greater fighter capacity than the hatshepsut. A new terran heavy destroyer would put the hecate into more applicable roles instead of being used as a node blockade for a sathanas.

[Quest_techie]

I want a hud that makes it look like there is no nebula, even if it's green nightvision glow

[Polpolion]

I say the GTVA invests in a billion million kamikaze amazon drones. A Sathanas jumps in, two thousand drones follow, 500 get taken down, 1500 impact hull, BOOM!!!

[S-99]

Gtva should invest in dumbfire highspeed helioses. Just aim at the sathanas and let her rip. Of course leave the normal helioses for more tactical purposes.

[Snail]

Mass firing of Helios bombs would probably not be a good idea. Why do you think there were delays in the first place? That looks like a job for... The GTCv Ajax (or something like it). The Ajax fires Cyclops and StarShaker torps which look cool (they are on the actual ship) and blow stuff up too (actually they get shot down more).

The Hecate was in the nebula because it was commanding the forces in there. You never actually see it blowing up Shivan cruisers, that was the fleet's job. However, it had to be in the nebula because the transmissions wouldn't work if they were still in Gamma Drax. However, when they had to retreat it was either that it was too slow, or its fleet was blown up. It was simply caught up by the Shivans.

The Hecate tat was blockadin gthe Sath (the Phonexia) was just a last-ditch defense, which failed. Boom.

Kamikaze bots are a good idea. But making so many sucks. Where are ya going to store them. And then one goes off at the storehouse and KABOOM!!!!!!!!!! Fireworks.

A HUD that clears nebula would be a good idea. I agree.

[Dysko]

A HUD that clears nebula would be a good idea. I agree.

Better than that, build a lot of those giant hoovers called "GTG Zephyrus" and "GVG Anuket" to physically remove the nebula, so there won't be anymore nebula interference and EMP storms

[Snail]

[S-99]

My point exactly, gtva probably could have at least sent in an outdated orion into the nebula instead, at least that thing would technically work better when it's in enemy territory.

[Admiral Edivad]

Better than that, build a lot of those giant hoovers called "GTG Zephyrus" and "GVG Anuket" to physically remove the nebula, so there won't be anymore nebula interference and EMP storms

or (WARNING:highly complicated and improbable idea) use the "hoovers" to move nebulas...nebulas could be used as a defence:
createa EMP nebula, or also a nebula that disables shields...can we have it? (anybody has played "Conquest: frontier wars"?)
place it so that it surroundes a jump node
place mjoliners/titans all around
wait for the enemies to jump in and watch them suffer...

[Snail]

Can we stop with the lame jokes that aren't lame enough to be funny, please? Lame jokes have to be so lame they're funny, and these aren't lame enough.

Unless you're being serious... In which case you're an idiot.

Yes, I did drink more milk. I feel really crap today, got a headache and everything.... :/

[Admiral Edivad]

i was serious
GTVA could use nebulas to defend important areas, and, of course, to make them more hidden... of course i don't want to debate on the physics laws on which this is based...I know that now such an idea sounds foolish, but in >2300...
or such a technology could be used by shivans to create problems to enemies' scouts.

[Qwer]

S-99 - Lucifer must've been horrible expensive. It's only 0,5km longer than Demon, but has five powerfull beam cannons (three of them able to destroy destroyer in one shot), three times better armour and powerfull shielding (Nyarlathotep's regenerating armor is non-canon and IMHO impossible) and we see only one of it in FS. Even if there were more of them, they'd be very rare. GTID Hades must've been also horrible expensive and built for a long time (there's large probablity that GTI had contact with Shivans long before attack on GTI Rivera). Even if GTVA would get Hades' plans and build its clone, there'd be at most two of them. True that they'd have awersome firepower, but single well-coordinated attack could finish them of (remember that shielding destroyer of that size is impossible for GTVA and bombs would deal damage as well). SDs would be good however as 3km mass-produced battleship with large front Anti-Cap firepower. Also with Hatshepsut-Hecate team I think it's wrong. Hecate was complete mistake, Hatshepsut has got large firepower, but it'd have twice as much if it wouldn't have fighterbays. Another thing is 2,5km carrier filled with fighters and 3km battleship with massive froward firepower that could lay waste to multiple Shivan destroyers.

The Hecate was in the nebula because it was commanding the forces in there. You never actually see it blowing up Shivan cruisers, that was the fleet's job. However, it had to be in the nebula because the transmissions wouldn't work if they were still in Gamma Drax.

So you can recive messages from GTVA Command from Beta Aquaile, but you can't from destroyer in near system? That's little odd, don't you think?

[Freespace Freak]

Yes, Snail I think in the end the point of my post was to say **** Jugs.  I don't think the GTVA should build Jugs at all unless they are meant as a lure.  The GTVA should make a strategy whereby they build a large multitude of relatively cheap, expendable ships that in large numbers are capable of taking down multiple Sathani.  As I said, a single meson bomb made into a shaped charge would probably be powerful enough to destroy a Sath in one hit, but just to be sure, these uberbombers would fly in a defensive formation, kinda like the flying fortresses of WWII, plus be escorted by a wing or two of interceptors and even a "bomber escort" to take down any small vessels that might get in the way.  Alone, these things would be a tough nut to crack, with their AAA beam and flak gun, but with three to four of them flying in formation, they'd be a nightmare for any fighter daring to take them down.

Lastly, these uberbombers would not need to be supported by a carrier.  Since they are large enough to be considered ships in their own right, they'll have intersystem jump drives as standard equipment.  Crewed by about eight, they'd have bunks, toilets, showers, and a galley (kitchen) onboard.  They'd have enough amenities for them to stay deployed for weeks.  I'd imagine that they could launch from a planet, rendezvous with their escort launched from a destroyer or carrier for the mission, and do their jobs.

In the end, just have the GTVA make lots of expendable little guys who can do enough damage on their own to destroy lots of Juggies, that's how it should work.  I don't even think Superdestroyers or other capships are a good idea to use to take down Saths, since these things themselves are expensive and take a long time to build.  That's why I think the uberbomber idea is the most efficient one.

[Snail]

Then its not even a uberbomber anymore... Its a gigabomber.

However, they would be easier to take down if the target had many SAAA beams or STrebuchets. However, deploying these gunboats would probably be the GTVA's best bet, since making 80 Colossi to counter the 80 Sathanes is completely out of the question.

However, the lots of little expendable guys is IMO a bad idea. If that was referring to the Uberbombers, then no, they're not little and they're not expendable. The bombs would take a lot of time and money and failed experiments to build, as would the bombers themselves. However, long-range bombardment craft capable of killing a Sath without needing to get anywhere near it would be a good idea IMO if the bombers fail to do their job.

[Freespace Freak]

Yes, they're not little or cheap compared to, say, other bombers, but they are cheap and expendable compared to a Destroyer, a Corvette, or even a cruiser, and that's the ticket.  It would be cheaper and probably much more effective to make a bunch of these guys compared to a bunch of Superdreadnoughts designed to take on Saths, when each one of these would defininately not be cheap nor expendable.  Besides, with an escort of fast, powerful interceptors, these gunboats (more like missile or bomb boats, oooh, now I need to play Tie Fighter again) have little to worry about from Trebuchet equipped Shivans.

[S-99]

Obviously never saths, that's why super destroyers are more recomendable. Yes on the note of the lucifer, yes it was rare, yes the shielding possibility for gtva is impossible, and that derelict is non-canon. But those points don't matter since i was just pointing out the fact that lucifers are pretty damn intimidating in any light.
Building SD's would promote new ship design, and eventually get rid of hecates especially, but since you know orions are being phased out, the hecate is to stay. The hecate is a new design still to the gtva, upgrading what few there are wouldn't be so expensive, and if the next ones get built, they would have already have changed the blueprints for those. Hecate isn't a mistake, just hard to think of a mission where a "light destroyer" would be a tactical benefit. And since everything in here costs too much money to do anyway, at least it's a better and feasible idea compared to building juggs.
Qwer, next time you quote something that i didn't say, plz include snails name since that was not something i wrote.

On the other hand for bombers. How hard was it ever to get really up close and personal to a sath with a normal bomber? I'd say if gtva wanted to, they could get away by just having more powerful ordinance, and possibly more capacity on bombers. With more powerful bombs, taking down a sath could become easier than taking down a destroyer (since saths don't have much weaponry besides 4 huge arms).

[Snail]

How expensive are Meson Bombs (charges), then?

Shivans would probably deploy something capable of pushing back the SSF (Strategic Strike Force), such as ships with say 4 SAAA beams, which would force the SSF back, protecting the Jug. But these mega-bomb-lobbers are the best the GTVA has.