[Fineus]

Hey all, a couple of things... just thinking this over and I think it'd make a nice option. It could be more of a mod than a source code change but I'm not sure. I was looking at the HUDs some peolpe have and realised that some colors would look really good on the HUD (red enemies, green friendlies on the targetting graphics) and so on - if it wasn't for the fact that the graphics are all transparent. Thus in nebula my typically white HUD becomes useless since the clouds and so on make rapid reading of anything very tricky.

If the graphics were on a black background that tightly fitted the shape of the graphics this problem would go, without loosing to much of the feel. Not all the graphics would have to be this way - or it might be nice to have a toggle for "non-transparency" on each different item of the HUD.

I don't know what you guys think of this, I'd just like to be able to use some typically cool HUD colors without having to double check it incase a nebula mission is coming up or the particular background/ship textures clash with the HUD.

That's my first point, my second is this:

Interleaving on the HUD. "that'd look ****e" you say, well perhaps. However I think it might create a nice effect... make it more believable as a HUD and not simply a fishbowl view of space with helpfully placed graphics. It actually gives the impression of having an electronic display and thus being in a ship as opposed to simply being in space - which is something I sometimes have a problem with, since there isn't any in cockpit graphics like in XWA this migh be a nice alternative to get a good authentic feel to the sim. Again a toggle for this...

What say you all?

[Riven]

cockpit sounds good. I doubt a 3d one would work but prehaps a 3d rendered image? sounds cool anyway.

[Solatar]

The one thing I want is a cockpit. You get a close thing by pressing the 0 button in the number pad. but then it feels like you aren't in a ship anymore.

[Solatar]

Also I just thought of this. Would all the cokpits be the same? Different for T/V, or different for Bombers and fighters? Or maybe that would be a new task for a player ship MODer to undertake. It could be in the HUD folder, or a new folder called cockpits. This would require some major source code changes.

[Fineus]

Creating an individual cockpit for each ship would be a massive task - even larger for moddelers since they'd have to design the inside and the outside of the ship. Having just Shivan Bomber, Shivan Fighter, Terran Bomber, Terran Fighter etc... would be easier but then each ship looks different - the Manticore is vastly different from the Dragon but both are Shivan fighters for instance.

That's why I made my suggestion, simple to implement (comparitivly speaking) yet effective, and doesn't require massive changes once the initial code/mod is in place to make it work. New modders could take advantage of generic changes as opposed to having to make a new 2/3D cockpit from scratch. Whilst it's possible (XWA showed us that with its modders) it's not simple, although it would be cool. My ideas were more of a stop-gap to give us the initial impressions and so on without having to re-do all the currently used models out there to take advantage of a new code or whatever.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Thunder
Hey all, a couple of things... just thinking this over and I think it'd make a nice option. It could be more of a mod than a source code change but I'm not sure. I was looking at the HUDs some peolpe have and realised that some colors would look really good on the HUD (red enemies, green friendlies on the targetting graphics) and so on - if it wasn't for the fact that the graphics are all transparent. Thus in nebula my typically white HUD becomes useless since the clouds and so on make rapid reading of anything very tricky.

If the graphics were on a black background that tightly fitted the shape of the graphics this problem would go, without loosing to much of the feel. Not all the graphics would have to be this way - or it might be nice to have a toggle for "non-transparency" on each different item of the HUD.

I don't know what you guys think of this, I'd just like to be able to use some typically cool HUD colors without having to double check it incase a nebula mission is coming up or the particular background/ship textures clash with the HUD.

That's my first point, my second is this:

Interleaving on the HUD. "that'd look ****e" you say, well perhaps. However I think it might create a nice effect... make it more believable as a HUD and not simply a fishbowl view of space with helpfully placed graphics. It actually gives the impression of having an electronic display and thus being in a ship as opposed to simply being in space - which is something I sometimes have a problem with, since there isn't any in cockpit graphics like in XWA this migh be a nice alternative to get a good authentic feel to the sim. Again a toggle for this...

What say you all?

*looks over replies*

Ok, to give you a relevant reply, I like both ideas. First one doesn't require a reworking of the SC, just redoing the HUD ANI's.
Second one would give the whole HUD the same feel as the pop-up video message display window. THe videos, IIRC, are pre-rendered with interlacing.

[Fineus]

Thanks for the input Would it not be possible to use the source code to make only certain parts of the HUD transparent (thus leaving the background of the .ANI files black. It might be somthing similar to the main hall background/animations?

[penguin]

Originally posted by Thunder
Thanks for the input Would it not be possible to use the source code to make only certain parts of the HUD transparent (thus leaving the background of the .ANI files black. It might be somthing similar to the main hall background/animations?

yes.



Which areas in particular?

[Fineus]

I'm not totally sure - it'd be nice to have it user specifiable for every piece of the HUD although I don't see people using it on things like the missile targeting brackets or the crosshairs, in particular I'd like to see it for the ship targetting boxes, escort, weapons and energy balancing boxes as well as the text for messages box. It's really down to user preference but those are the ones I'd see myself using more.

[penguin]

hmm, that makes it a little more complicated, as usual

Maybe add another chckbox in the HUD options screen (transparent background) for each HUD element, in addition to the on/off/popup setting.  This would also affect the player file, as the HUD config settings (color, on/off/popup) are stored there.

Edit: if the on/off/popup is just a flag, it's probably only using two or three bits, we might be able to exploit the others for this w/out breaking existing player files

From a rendering point of view, it's easy enough to draw an opaque black rect of the appropriate size before rendering the HUD bitmap in question though.

[penguin]

Another (ugly) way would be to edit the ANI files themselves and turn the transparent areas to black, but then it would not be configurable.

[LtNarol]

I think I like the hud the way it is, although a frame around the border would make sense.  As for those of you saying that graphics cant just be in the middle of nowhere, I disagree  Simple graphics like these can be projected onto glass (atleast i think its glass...), just take a look at the real huds they use today.  

[Solatar]

Yes they areprojected, but wouldn't it be cool to be able to look around the cockpit? Kind of like Rodue Squadron.

[Nico]

I'd want 3d cockpits, coz that way you don't have to think much about the gauges and everything, you throw in a 3d cockpit w/o anything on it, et voila. Sounds dumb? look at wing co prophecy and Iwar2, it's really efficient, they all share the same HUD, but the cockpit mesh varies, and it works.
And to Thunder: building a low  poly cockpit mesh is a matter of minutes

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by venom2506
And to Thunder: building a low  poly cockpit mesh is a matter of minutes

*points to Venom's first title*

Of course it is.

[Stunaep]

cockpit I want!!!!

[Fineus]

Well if Venom thinks we can make a 3D cockpit then that's great, but I'm no expert - and we'd have to do it for all the ships in the game you can fly...

[Nico]

nah, really, a low poly ( I insist on LOW POLY ) cockpit is really simple, it's really a matter of minutes to make one, it's really much simpler than a fighter or anything else. I don't have a version of max to use right now, but I bet if you ask, say, aldo to make an exemple in 30 minutes, you'll have the complete thing with maps and all. you don't need to make much you know, just the parts you'll see from the cockpit view. Of course, if we're talking about a padlock view of some sort, it's a bit more work, but still, wouldn't be that difficult, plus save for the actual panel, all the rest of the cockpit could be generic for a given species, people would not even notice. At best, a slightly different skin if you really want the cockpiots to look 100% different, et voila.

[Solatar]

Tha vasudan ships you fly could have terran cockpit. With just a LITTLE bit of Vasudan. After all, they ar Modified for terrans.

[Fineus]

Sounds great!

One thing though, would the cockpits be static - stay in exactly the same position no matter what you do - or would they move toward/away from the view slightly as you speed up/down and move with the ship - as with IW2 and Wing Commander Prophecy? I think it'd be better if they moved but that's a little more work again...

Perhaps we should have a generic fighter and bomber cockpit for each species? I mean bombers are much more chunky than fighters... it might be worth the extra effort for the effect....