[neoterran]

First of all, the shivan lasers are not very nice to use, they seem SO slow. If you're going to expand this campaign, I think you may want to introduce some new and more excitign shivan weapons. Secondly, it's really weird for shivan missiles to be the stock terran weapons and they don't look shivan. A little work on modifying this could really improve the campaign.

Other than that I think it's great, Good Work! The shivan briefings are definately cool, keeping them mysterious is a good idea, don't stray from it.

[karajorma]

Then you'd lose money. I'd show a screenshot of it, but now it won't freaking run at ALL.

Tried the latest CVS build. Got this dumb error about missing flag files. Looked it up, apparently this OpenAl will fix it. It didn't do a damn thing. 3.6.5 is now not running at all for any reason, and neither is 3.6.7. Now I have to go uninstall and reinstall FS2 for the 3rd time in the past 2 days.

Edit: Just reinstalled everything. Here's your proof.

http://www.zingsdomain.com/culando/loadfailed.jpg
http://www.zingsdomain.com/culando/stillfails.jpg

Actually I wouldn't. The full message allowed me to grep the code. When I was searching for "Unable to load mission" I was finding nothing.

At least I know where the error is (In freespace.cpp) even if I can't see what could be causing it.

Try the new CVS build (The one I posted in recent builds is probably the newest) and if you still get it see what happens with the debug build.

[Culando]

Well lookit that. It works now. And so does Into the Depths of Hell. Sorry for being a bother. While dealing with FS2 crashing and everything along with my video card being uppity lately, I've gotten quickly frustrated with my computer. Thanks for the help.

[Warnstaff]

I've not tested this campaign with anything other the CVS builds 3.6.7 and 3.6.8 (several diffrent releases).

Glad you got it working Culando. I'd have responded earlier, but  it's the weekend and I like to sleep.

First of all, the shivan lasers are not very nice to use, they seem SO slow. If you're going to expand this campaign, I think you may want to introduce some new and more excitign shivan weapons. Secondly, it's really weird for shivan missiles to be the stock terran weapons and they don't look shivan. A little work on modifying this could really improve the campaign.

All weapons are the exact same that the cannon shivans use. I guess volition didn't bother making new shivan secondary weapons ([V] probly didn't think we'd normally look that closely).

The shivan primaries are quite weak, but that's probly why there were so many shivan fighters in the main campaign, and why I give you lots of shivan allies. In my experience so far, the shivans have a very diffrent style of fighting to that of the GTVA. I currently don't have any plans to change this, barring a large outcry from the community. Just keep in mind that (at least to my knowledge) there isn't exactly any reference shivan fighting styles outside of this campaign and players speding lots of time studying shivans, as supposed to killing them.

[Dan1]

Then you'd lose money. I'd show a screenshot of it, but now it won't freaking run at ALL.

Tried the latest CVS build. Got this dumb error about missing flag files. Looked it up, apparently this OpenAl will fix it. It didn't do a damn thing. 3.6.5 is now not running at all for any reason, and neither is 3.6.7. Now I have to go uninstall and reinstall FS2 for the 3rd time in the past 2 days.

Edit: Just reinstalled everything. Here's your proof.

http://www.zingsdomain.com/culando/loadfailed.jpg
http://www.zingsdomain.com/culando/stillfails.jpg

Actually I wouldn't. The full message allowed me to grep the code. When I was searching for "Unable to load mission" I was finding nothing.

At least I know where the error is (In freespace.cpp) even if I can't see what could be causing it.

Try the new CVS build (The one I posted in recent builds is probably the newest) and if you still get it see what happens with the debug build.

I dunno, I've had several campaigns do just like Culando says with the Unable to load screen and that's it....but then I try several different things and usually get it to work somehow. 

Anyway, with the weapon strenth thing, I agree with warnstaff, It's just how the shivans roll.  Weak weapons but swarm in numbers.  I like the realistic feel and I think you've made a great demo..can't wait for the whole campaign  8)

[Warnstaff]

I'm thinking about releasing the campaign in 3 "phases". First one is the nebula campaign (be it's own campaign). Phase 2 will be the p"post-nebula" campaign (also it's own campaign, to be renamed). Phase three would be a compilation of the first two, so it can be played either right through from beginning to end, or in diffrent experiences - nebula fighting and the gamma-draconis and capella fights. This would be quicker releases without comprimising quality. What do you guys think

[Akalamanaia]

Game crashes right on the first bar of loading the campaign...

Error: SC-01.fs2(70):
Error: Required token = [$multi_text], found [$mirror: 0] .

File:parse/parselo.cpp
Line: 551
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------

[karajorma]

You need to use a newer build of FS2_Open most likely. The inability to deal with the [$mirror: 0] generally means that the campaign was made with a very new version of FRED but you're playing on something more than a couple of months old.

[Akalamanaia]

Well i downloaded the latest stable build, wich is 3.6.7 afaik
[edit]Well i downloaded the latest CVS build and i was able to play the demo through.

I found it very nice disregarding any spelling errors i encountered, the missions were nicely done, and had a good pace.
Finally i was able to fly a Manticore, shooting with that thing was a little tricky at times though.
Story was also very well done, and i liked how you managed to make the mission briefs shivanish.

I'd give this 4.8/5.0
I can't wait for some more missions.

[Warnstaff]

I'm gonna be releasing the "nebula campaign" part of the campaign when it's done. This way you guys can get a more full experience, and I am happy for creating a backup Of course, this doesn't mean that I'm not gonna have a capella part.

Just for the "record" of sorts, I've been using the latest released CVS builds for the game exe and FRED2. I'm not gonna be using any new ones that get released (except the officially stable ones) due to these problems that seemed to have arised for common older builds. Don't want these builds to go out of date to soon.

[Triple Ace]

You are off to a good start, but do something about the weapons. Either make them stronger of faster. At current settings they suck.

[neoterran]

^^ What he said. I know you want to be a "purist" about it, but the whole point of creating a campaign is so your players can have fun and enjoy themselves, and you can feel good when everyone says how great the campaign was.

It's just no fun to shoot stuff with those crappy weapons, period.

[S-99]

Well, i played the whole demo last night.  It's very interesting.  The first thing i usually have to complain about fighters is the gunpoints, so far the taurvi and mara have gunpoints i'm comfy with.  The shivan primaries aren't all that bad, the shivan heavy laser is nice, but generally works nice with refiring speed if you don't combine weapons.  They are different weapons to use, and that's one reason why they're fun, i guess i should try using secondaries more often since shivan fighters usually hold a lot of secondaries.  Like everyone says, i need to learn how shivans fight first, interesting to have your ass kicked by a myrmadon.

[Warnstaff]

I have an idea that can solve both weapons releated problems. I will create a second optional weapons table with improved weapons. That way you guys can either have the "purist" weapons or the "fun" weapons. It's five to 3am right now, so I'll do it tomorrow. Be advised, the missions are being designed for "purist" weapons, so the "fun" weapons will probly unbalance the campaign, at which point I'll reform the missions for a second campaign to balance it out (provided I have the time).

The weapon placements are very enoying, even for me. I'll explore the model stuff to change the weapon placements (if thats where I do it) to be more friendly (especially the astaroth and Seriphim). If I can figure out how to do that, I'll include it in the "fun shivans" campaign optionals.

[Wanderer]

If you are using the stock Shivan weapons from FS2 then... Shivan weapons are much worse than any normally used weapon in FS2... Even the best of them (imo the shivan heavy laser) manages to be just a bit worse than crappiest weapon available normally in FS2.. the Prometheus R...

[neoterran]

I have an idea that can solve both weapons releated problems. I will create a second optional weapons table with improved weapons. That way you guys can either have the "purist" weapons or the "fun" weapons. It's five to 3am right now, so I'll do it tomorrow. Be advised, the missions are being designed for "purist" weapons, so the "fun" weapons will probly unbalance the campaign, at which point I'll reform the missions for a second campaign to balance it out (provided I have the time).

The weapon placements are very enoying, even for me. I'll explore the model stuff to change the weapon placements (if thats where I do it) to be more friendly (especially the astaroth and Seriphim). If I can figure out how to do that, I'll include it in the "fun shivans" campaign optionals.

I think that is a great idea. You don't have to make the weapons that much more ridiculously powerful... Just a little bit faster and maybe some optional variants as the campaign goes forward, you know, like you get new weapons the shivans have devised that we didn't see in the previous campaign, even some recolors of existing weapons with different firing rates would do the trick.

Another big thing for me is the missiles. It just doesn't make sense the shivans would use a weapon like "trebuchet" or "hornet" and still have it called that name. It would go a long way if the hornet was still the "hornet" but was called something shivan... and maybe had a different color or glow...

[Cobra]

Why would the name of the weapons mean anything? The Shivans probably aren't big on weapon names anyway.

[neoterran]

It means something to me because i feel like it drops the realism of playing a shivan pilot. I really want to be completely immersed as a shivan, something this camaign will have the potential to do, and looking at my familiar terran missile names kind of detracts from that. I'm not suggesting shivans need all new missiles, but i just don't want to stare at terran missile names during the mission. Anyway, this is just a suggestion from one pilot, Command probably won't listen...

[Akalamanaia]

Changing weapon damage or firing rates would just detract from the Shivalism(Shivan realism..  ), i just want the stock FS2 shivan weapons, whatever the ships used i want them like that..

I been waiting for a campaign like this for a long time..
You can always mod the tables yourself if you want more "fun" experience, it doesn't take much to tweak a few values.

I personally didn't find any weapon to be "not fun", each one was good, and balanced. Like their supposed to be, this is not quake afterall where you can kill everybody in shot or two cause its "fun".

[Cobra]

It means something to me because i feel like it drops the realism of playing a shivan pilot. I really want to be completely immersed as a shivan, something this camaign will have the potential to do, and looking at my familiar terran missile names kind of detracts from that. I'm not suggesting shivans need all new missiles, but i just don't want to stare at terran missile names during the mission. Anyway, this is just a suggestion from one pilot, Command probably won't listen...

Well, what would you call a Shivan Hornet?