[An4ximandros]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/06/us-centralafrican-un-idUSBREA2520Z20140306?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

For an example of just how bad absolutely FUBAR the situation is right now: Exhibit A

[Luis Dias]

Gotta love the tribal mentality.

[Veers]

Now, I'm not knowledgeable on any of this and am appealing to the knowledge that HLP possesses.

Hasn't the same sort of situation occurred within the Middle-East against Christans (and/or Jews/Muslims/other) depending on the location?

and If so, did the UN ever consider sending such a force to assist in those areas? If not, why does the C.A.R receive such attention?

Never would have noticed this, with all the attention Russia and the Ukraine are receiving.

[Phantom Hoover]

i don't remember hearing about anyone eating christians, no

[StarSlayer]

Also this proposal is still "under consideration" and hasn't been approved.  I would imagine plenty of proposals never make it past this stage or get much traction in the press.  In addition inserting a peace keeping force into the CAR is likely more realistic than occupying a middle eastern nation with foreign troops.

[S-99]

Would have been nice had there not been any religious persecution of the christians to start with the islamic take over of the government.

[Bobboau]

...

I don't think they has been much in the mid east in the way of major christian persecutions, I think there was a bit in Egypt following the rebellion, but generally there are not really many Christians there to persecute.

What you are probably thinking about is Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, etc. Central Africa (not C.A.R. specifically, but everything south of the desert and north of South Africa) is, has, and by all evidence continues to be a huge chaotic mass of blood and terror for everyone involved. There have been countless genocides of Christians there over the last few years centuries, as well as any other sub group you can imagine. they all got lots of talk and little action as I imagine this will as well.

[Scotty]

Now, I'm not knowledgeable on any of this and am appealing to the knowledge that HLP possesses.

Hasn't the same sort of situation occurred within the Middle-East against Christans (and/or Jews/Muslims/other) depending on the location?

and If so, did the UN ever consider sending such a force to assist in those areas? If not, why does the C.A.R receive such attention?

Never would have noticed this, with all the attention Russia and the Ukraine are receiving.

So, I'm going to ask one very simple, very significant question:

Even if it had, is that reason to leave innocent people to be brutally murdered?

The correct answer is no.

[Veers]

Thanks Bobboau.

Scotty, my questions before were based on what very limited knowledge I currently possess, and hence are incredibly flawed.

I agree 100% with your statement. Thanks!

Even if it had, is that reason to leave innocent people to be brutally murdered?

The correct answer is no.

[Rodo]

Oh boy, next time I'm complaining about my country I'll try remembering this.

[Aardwolf]

Huzzah.



So uh... it's not really on a 'genocide' scale, but a lot of Islamic states have the death penalty for apostasy (i.e. converting away from Islam). So... idk, just throwing that out there.

[Dragon]

This just goes to show Christian extremists aren't any better than Muslim ones. Really, ultimately, it doesn't matter what superstition they believe in, only that they believe in it strongly enough to start killing people about it. Such massacres have very little to do with the actual teachings of either religion, but it's not like this ever stopped anyone. The only religion I haven't seen used as an excuse for a nutcase behavior is Buddhism, and that's probably because I don't live around the area where it's common (also, it requires you to think, which is generally enough to deter most primitives from it. Genocidal extremists usually are rather primitive).

Well, that, and Pastafaranism. But that one's too new and too small to have had it's chance yet.

[Aardwolf]

Nope, I thought that too, but then someone pointed out some 'devout' Buddhist Japanese people in WWII. Although that was in the context of "Buddhists actually abide by the nonviolence stuff", not "Buddhists are non-genocidal"... and the example was a high-ranking navy officer, so presumably not one of the "let's do experiments on the POWs" guys.

Pastafarianism is really just atheists (just like the Church of Satan is atheists (look it up)).

[Nuke]

glad to see the crusades are still going on strong. murder is good for the soul.

[S-99]

This just goes to show Christian extremists aren't any better than Muslim ones. Really, ultimately, it doesn't matter what superstition they believe in, only that they believe in it strongly enough to start killing people about it. Such massacres have very little to do with the actual teachings of either religion, but it's not like this ever stopped anyone. The only religion I haven't seen used as an excuse for a nutcase behavior is Buddhism, and that's probably because I don't live around the area where it's common (also, it requires you to think, which is generally enough to deter most primitives from it. Genocidal extremists usually are rather primitive).

Well, that, and Pastafaranism. But that one's too new and too small to have had it's chance yet.

There is so much debasing that is happening in religion that it's stupid. The extremist muslims are alright with debasing themselves to violence and non-acceptane of others. The christian majority population have been deeply criticized and persecuted. Yes, they will act. How to act accordingly? I think that the christians could act better if they themselves didn't debase themselves to the muslim extremists. You want muslims out of your neighborhood? Fine, you can do it without death. Mass evictions would still lead to the muslim population leaving as it is currently doing so.

Everything is without a target leaving the objective too broad to have any kind of meaning. The christians are doing the same as when the muslims took over. Nothing will be learned except that no religion should persecute another. If this lesson will be learned in c.a.r.

Although i must disagree about buddhist monks. Buddhist monks from the 969 movement would have you in disbelief. And, muslims most likely did many things to provoke people to act against them. Must have been pretty bad if they pissed off monks. Maybe it'd be nice if people of any religion didn't insist on being treating others like crap (especially when they are the minority at times).

We have a nice thing going on in america here with freedom of speech and islam. Basicly it goes after not pissing off the muslims so you don't die or have something nasty happen to you.

Islam in this new century will definitely learn to temper itself, the sooner, the better, the less muslims that will get slaughtered. Because it's all just stupid with this religious non-acceptance of other people and their beliefs.

[Bobboau]

Problem is most pervasive religions tend to have an assortment of teachings about spreading the word and converting the others and everyone who is not us is bad. Many religions have in recent years learned to ignore that component, it is still present. Its hard to be excepting of others when yours is the one true way, written perfectly, descended from the gods themselves. because if you don't force those damned heathens into worshiping the correct god in the correct manor they are going to burn for all eternity, and not only that but you have an absolute mandate from the ruler of the universe to do so.

[S-99]

This eventually gets down to hypocrisy, such as kill the heathens; just bypass a step. Islam needs to modernize. There are plenty of modernized muslims out there of course. But, holy war and extremist religious people need to get shed from any religion, and then eventually, religion itself can be shed.

So what is offense? One thing is when people tell me i'm going to go to hell. I tell people who tell me i am going to hell quite directly to **** off.  Part of the attack happens because anybody that knows me knows that i denounce religion even though i believe in god and read the bible (god and religion are things i believe can be separated), and that i don't let them manipulate me. In reality, how dare anyone say that they know what's going to happen to your soul when your meat suit fails. In light of that, how dare anyone say that they speak for, or on behalf of god (such a big corruption on belief in god to manipulate others).

The other part offense is that they believe that they are morally and religiously superior to me. These people i don't tell to **** off directly and just let my tolerance and acceptance of others piss them off even more. I'm almost damn well convinced that most christians just hate jesus and his teachings through their actions, selfishness, and corruption.

In short, it's all so saddening, because one of the first things to go in religion is humanity because of intolerance. Not many realize that only humans care if you were a good christian, muslim, buddhist, etc., and that the higher powers that be doesn't.

[Luis Dias]

How do you know they don't?

Anyways, yes, let's not start degenerating this thread into the usual "Look christians are bad, catholics are worse, but islam is even worse" etc. There is a lot of heterogeneity in these groups and I don't think these generalizations are useful... what is going on here is just awful and I hope there is someone or something that will stop it before it goes to its logical conclusion.

[InsaneBaron]

Going off what Luis said, let's all be careful what we say. This thread looks dangerously close to a flame war.

[General Battuta]

Huzzah.

So uh... it's not really on a 'genocide' scale, but a lot of Islamic states have the death penalty for apostasy (i.e. converting away from Islam). So... idk, just throwing that out there.

Just throwing that out there, to, you know, suggest that maybe these Muslims deserve it? Because if that's not what you're trying to imply, I think you'd best clarify quick.

Islam's problems with extremism over the last few decades have much more to do with the geopolitical position of Muslim populations than they do with any core doctrinal tenets of the faith. Most religion is prone to extremism because by nature religion attempts to define superordinate tenets for behavior, and these tenets ask believers to take action in the material world. It's not a problem unique to Islam or Christianity. It may not even be a problem unique to religion as a class of structure.

Going off what Luis said, let's all be careful what we say. This thread looks dangerously close to a flame war.

Not particularly, and please don't backseat moderate. If you want to get involved with the thread, contribute. (you can also set more, ah, doctrinaire polemics to ignore)