Author Topic: Why Only One Lucifer?  (Read 12107 times)

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<Wall of text>

I have a better excuse.



The writers wanted it so.

 
Finally, an excuse!  I've been thinking up a new Shivan theory, and this thread fits just right.

Why was there only one Lucifer?  Because the Lucifer isn't a command ship or a warship or anything like that.

It's a flying bomb.

<wall of text>

The Lucifer was a bomb, a giant suicide weapon.  It was all part of a grand plan by our "larger problem," one that may have been also testing the Terrans and Vasudans to prove their worth in some way.  And then it cut off Sol from the rest of them to pervent the infighting that led to the 14 Year War in the first place.

My thoughts anyway.

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Offline S-99

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Also, count to how many plantes they had access in FS2.
Capella was the only colonized Terran system which they had reached, there's no point in bringing in planetkiller if there are no planets to kill.
i think a sath could do the job of planet killer. But, why kill a planet directly when you can blow up the star?
This time, they wanted to blow up a star and I think that they would have done it regardless of GTVA resistance, maybe even presence.
I say no. They probably wouldn't have blown up the star if capella was uninhabited. The shivans were up to many things in capella, and i think a show of power was one of them. It was a moment for terrans and vasudans to know that it's more than just their planets they need to protect.
I bet that if GTVA had left the nebula and shut down the Knossos, nothing would have happened. They should have done it by the time the first Sathanas was destroyed (they had Meson Bombs by that time and knew how to shut down the node). The last moment to do it was when the second Sath appeared. If they had collapsed a node to nebula (or to Gamma Draconis, as it was useless anyway) they could have avoided what happened in Capella. And they had resources to do it.
Here's the thing. The gtva did leave the nebula and shutdown the knossos. You're remembering things out of order. Upon the sighting of the first sathanas, the gtva did pull out all of its forces from the nebula. The meson bomb permanently shutdown the knossos, but the knossos was active long enough to stabilize that jump node for god knows how long even without the knossos. That's how the first sathanas entered gtva space; by using the node that the knossos had stabilized after the knossos was destroyed.
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Offline Ziame

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snip

Dragon meant, that GTVA should've collapsed the node immediately after hearing of the next jugs. I'd close it after killing first Sath anyway.
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Offline Dragon

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Exactly.
I don't know for what they were looking for in that nebula anyway, they found another Knossos and a lot of Shivans on the other side, so they should acknownledge that they are not welcome in this system, pack and leave. By the time of SOC mission it might have been too late for closing the node to nebula, but they could have cut Gamma Draconis, as it was useless. The only gain they had from the nebula was a possiblity of producing Prom S, but with NTF insurgency over they would not need it.
GTVA apperantely failed to understand that, as written by Stanislaw Lem in "Solaris" (or was it "Invincible"? Both have the same conclusion, Lem apperantely liked this theme.):
Quote from: Stanislaw Lem's "Solaris"
Not everything in the universe is for humans.
If GTVA had accepted this and abandoned the nebula when it wasn't too late, they could have saved Capella.

 

Offline Snail

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snip

Dragon meant, that GTVA should've collapsed the node immediately after hearing of the next jugs. I'd close it after killing first Sath anyway.
They tried to collapse the Knossos when the first Sath appeared.

 

Offline Vip

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Exactly.
I don't know for what they were looking for in that nebula anyway, they found another Knossos and a lot of Shivans on the other side, so they should acknownledge that they are not welcome in this system, pack and leave. By the time of SOC mission it might have been too late for closing the node to nebula, but they could have cut Gamma Draconis, as it was useless. The only gain they had from the nebula was a possiblity of producing Prom S, but with NTF insurgency over they would not need it.

Well, there were a few things.

1. the most important of all, the first Knossos. Petrarch says in the command briefing of the Battle of the Wilderness:

Quote
Allied scientists studying the portal remain optimistic about the potential for this technology. In five to ten years, we might be able to restore contact with Earth or create new jump nodes to unexplored regions of the galaxy. For this reason, the portal must remain open for as long as possible.
Command has issued a standing order to destroy the device should a full-scale invasion be imminent.

It was imperative to gather as much available information as possible about the gate, that's why they have kept it active until the last possible moment. Obviously, this point becomes moot after the destruction of the Knossos, however here comes the second argument...

2. In the same briefing, we can read:

Quote
The Shivan fleet appears to be smaller than the armada we defeated three decades ago, and our improved technology gives us a tactical advantage.

The GTVA believed that they could handle the threat. They actually did quite well, if you don't count the first Ravana, and managed to succeed in most engagements against the Shivans. They even managed to develop a strategy against an enemy Sathanas and defeat it. I wouldn't be surprised if the GTVA considered the Sathanas to be kind of a new Lucifer - they never expected that the Shivans could have an entire armada of them.

3. Aken Bosch. While the NTF Rebellion was basically over after Bosch's escape, somebody had to be punished for all the war crimes. In order to improve morale across the GTVA space and help stabilise the relationship with the Vasudans, they needed to capture him and his lieutenants and put them on trail.


Nevertheless, I still don't know why they haven't closed of Gamma Draconis the moment multiple juggernauts were discovered. The only explanation that comes to my mind is that the meson-armed Orions weren't ready until Shivans had already reached Capella.
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Offline Tantalus53

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One reason you wouldnt want to take on a Shivan Destroyer in subspace.. Something blowing up in a corridor may destabilize said corridor. Is attacking a few Demons en-route to an inhabited system, with a zero-chance of backup Capship wise (If they jump it, its from the beginning or end of the corridor. a big distance to transverse whereas in realspace, a cruiser can jump in right on top of a battle and help out) Your looking at more bomber casualties, as the Shields will not be there to stop the shockwave from washing over the bomber and knocking out subsystems as their prone to... Yeah, not the best..

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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The Lucifer, to our knowledge, only attacked the surface of ONE planet, Vasuda Prime, and we've always assumed, rather reasonably, that it was going to do the same to Earth.

The FS1 Tech Description makes you its *****. Which is a shame, because it's a pretty good run. :/
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Offline Dragon

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It was imperative to gather as much available information as possible about the gate, that's why they have kept it active until the last possible moment. Obviously, this point becomes moot after the destruction of the Knossos, however here comes the second argument...
Don't forget that the Collosus was nearly destroyed by Sathanas.
After they had destroyed the Knossos, they should have continued and close the jump node created by it.
Or at least be prepared to do it and close it immidiately after SOC team returned to Gamma Draconis.
A Meson Bomb filled Orion should be on guard of this node all the time.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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They didn't know about a second Sathanas until much later. No context for the Shivans having that, much less what they did.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Offline Dragon

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They could have done this just in case.
GTA defeated Lucifer and the next thing Shivans send was ten times bigger.
So, after they defeated the Sathanas, they should have predicted that Shivans won't give up and may send something more powerfull.
Of course, they couldn't be sure, but better safe than sorry.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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They could have done this just in case.

Just in case is the key to never accomplishing anything. The Sathanas was, by most appearances, analogous to the Lucifer's posistion in the Shivan fleet hierarchy. They only got the Orions ready when they discovered the second one.
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Offline Firartix

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BTW, Killing those Sathanas is a thing, but they could have disabled / disarmed em one by one as they were coming (just look at "In the Lion's den, they take some time to come). Why didn't they do this ?

Plus there is something that doesn't fit with what Eishtmo said.
I mean, the ship had to explode in the Subspace corridor to close it, right ?
It's what they did for the Bastion, afaik
Then why did they wait for arriving to the end of the subspace corridor to detonate it ?
I believe the explosion at the end of the corridor don't mean a thing.
I guess the Video was just like uh.... "LOOKS, IT EXPLODES ! A FUNNY WAY !"
Moreover, if it exploded during the Subspace travel, since the nodes collapsed, what would have happened to other vessels ?
This would mean you're dead, or somewhere in some unexplored space ? That wouldn't fit with the story !!

 

Offline Snail

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BTW, Killing those Sathanas is a thing, but they could have disabled / disarmed em one by one as they were coming (just look at "In the Lion's den, they take some time to come). Why didn't they do this ?
:rolleyes:

The Sathanas has six engine subsystems, 5 beam cannons, scores of point-defense weapons and hundreds of fighters in its fighterbay is why.

They didn't disable them for the exact same reason the Sathanas was a threat. You may as well say "Why didn't they just destroy all the Saths? That would've been so easy!"

 

Offline Firartix

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I see... I though it didn't has that many Engines subsys.
BTW, regarding the strength of the Beam Cannons compared to other things on the Sathanas,
They should rather have deployed 20 Alpha 1 than the Colossus, i'm sure it could have disarmed it and everything !

 

Offline headdie

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I see... I though it didn't has that many Engines subsys.
BTW, regarding the strength of the Beam Cannons compared to other things on the Sathanas,
They should rather have deployed 20 Alpha 1 than the Colossus, i'm sure it could have disarmed it and everything !

1 engine 5 reactors
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Offline Firartix

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1 engine 5 reactors

The Sathanas has six engine subsystems, 5 beam cannons, scores of point-defense weapons and hundreds of fighters in its fighterbay is why.

How many then ?

 

Offline headdie

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hmmm seem to have quoted wrong thing i ment to say the lucifer was 1 engine 5 reactors
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Offline Snail

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The Lucifer has two engines and five reactors.

The Sathanas has six engines but no exploitable reactors.

I see... I though it didn't has that many Engines subsys.
BTW, regarding the strength of the Beam Cannons compared to other things on the Sathanas,
They should rather have deployed 20 Alpha 1 than the Colossus, i'm sure it could have disarmed it and everything !
:rolleyes:

Yeah, sure. 20 Alpha 1s.