Author Topic: PCS2 global/local transforms  (Read 8022 times)

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Offline Spicious

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PCS2 global/local transforms
Next up on requested PCS2 features is applying transforms (scaling, rotation, translations) to either the entire scene or to specific subobjects, turrets etc.

What do you want it to do? Describe your use cases!

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
It can do translations already no? (just change the centerpoint coords of the subobject in question, or just drag it IIRC)
Scaling and rotation would be awesome though.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline JGZinv

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Scaling would be appreciated. I've often rigged something in Max, thought I had it down
size wise, only to throw it in PCS2 and be off a few meters from where I wanted it.
So having a viewport scale and then a text box for precise values in XYZ planes would be helpful.

I would also suggest that if you continue to add "tool" functions, it might be wise to put them
into a utilities drop down menu. This way you're not cluttering up the normal rigging display.
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Scaling is the big one.  With and without points.  I just had to rescale a ship and max messed it several times in different ways(but only on newer nvidia cards for some reason) so it's not the easiest thing. 

I have moved objects in PCS2 (by accident).  Is it possible to move just pivots?  That might be something useful as well.  Had a use for it once before.  Pain to tweak the pivot, export, import, make pof, repeat. 

Cloning an object might be nice as well. 
No-one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad, they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. He's even grown to like it. Oh yes. -Zathras

 

Offline Spicious

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Translation for individual subobjects would probably be for moving its pivot, or for handling moving other things linked to it (paths).

It should already be possible to copy subobjects.

I would also suggest that if you continue to add "tool" functions, it might be wise to put them
into a utilities drop down menu. This way you're not cluttering up the normal rigging display.
Local transforms would probably end up with a button with the new/copy/delete buttons. Global would end up with a menu item like global import.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
just support a 4x4 transform matrix. that should be able to handle everything.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Cloning an object might be nice as well. 

You can already clone objects, just save it as a pof, and import the object from the POF you saved :P
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Spicious

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
just support a 4x4 transform matrix. that should be able to handle everything.
That doesn't answer the question. A matrix doesn't do anything by itself.

Cloning an object might be nice as well. 

You can already clone objects, just save it as a pof, and import the object from the POF you saved :P
Or you could use the copy button:

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Offline Droid803

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Well in older versions sometimes that copy button would spit Array out of Bounds. If that's fixed then :) :D
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Kobrar44

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
I'd like to be able to set object origin, or whatever it's called, myself in pcs. I am talking about the point the subsystem is rotating around. It is alrady possible to choose axis, but I think I can't SET it. Correct me if I am wrong
Oh guys, use that [ url ][ img ][ /img ][ /url ] :/

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
just support a 4x4 transform matrix. that should be able to handle everything.
That doesn't answer the question. A matrix doesn't do anything by itself.

my point was that most transforms can be represented with a 4x4 matrix. you could probibly calculate one yourself and enter all 16 values, and then click apply. and the submodel in question would be transformed by that matrix. all you would need at that point was a front end to do common stuff rotation/translation/scale/mirroring maybe some other advanced transforms, and maybe raw matrix to cover any other bases that modders may come up with.
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Offline Spicious

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
I understand that point. A 4x4 matrix is what I'm planning on as at least the initial input method (though probably only allowing editing of the first 3 rows). Under the hood it's actually a 3x3 matrix plus a translation vector.

The question is more about what the frame of reference should be.
For a subobject, should the transform be with respect to the pivot, or the subobject's parent, or to the origin?
In general, each choice produces very different results.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
That would probably depend on if you are doing transforms on multiple objects or single ones.  For instance if you want to scale the whole model then detail0 pivot would be the one to use.  If you are only scaling a single subobject I believe that modeling programs use the objects pivot.  Now it gets tricky if you want to do multiple subobjects.  Do you use the calculated center based on all of their pivots or detail0? 
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Offline Spicious

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
There are no transforms on multiple objects, unless they're naturally grouped already (glowpoints, dockpoints etc.). Now, for dockpoints , the obvious pivot is the origin, but there's also potential applications for pivotting about the centroid.

So far it's possible to transform subobjects, turrets, eye points, thruster glows and glowpoints. Transforms on subobjects also transfer to their associated child subobjects, turrets and eye points.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
I understand that point. A 4x4 matrix is what I'm planning on as at least the initial input method (though probably only allowing editing of the first 3 rows). Under the hood it's actually a 3x3 matrix plus a translation vector.

The question is more about what the frame of reference should be.
For a subobject, should the transform be with respect to the pivot, or the subobject's parent, or to the origin?
In general, each choice produces very different results.
you definitely want some kind of origin vector. id love to be able to set origins of subobjects, but thats another feature entirely. in practice you would set the origin (or use the existing origin) before applying the transform.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Spicious

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
It's ready to play with. The transform button replaces the save button next to the load button. It applies to globally if the header is selected, or to the current object otherwise.

Edit: As an added bonus, the render should continue working (without needing to reload textures or similar) after visiting the preferences dialog.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 07:23:20 pm by Spicious »

 

Offline Spicious

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Has anyone tried this?
It now has friendlier transform input options (scale, translate, rotate).

 

Offline Nyctaeus

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
I tried it and I like it. New rescaling is a great. I hasn't tried matrix, because I don't know how it works, but it can be effective tool in proper hands :yes: .
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 10:17:21 am by Betrayal »
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Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Testing would be easier if we had any idea at all on how to use this. :p

Entering random numbers into individual cells of the rotate dialogue box didn't have any effect until I tried the last one - the rightmost box which apparently defines rotation about the ships X axis?
Then I changed the leftmost box from the default 1 to a 0 and my subobject vanished. :(
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Offline Spicious

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Re: PCS2 global/local transforms
Maybe I should have left it just with the 4D matrix input. There's no ambiguity there.

The rotation thing is the first three specify the rotation axis and the fourth the rotation angle (in degrees) about that axis.