[Fry_Day]

Unknown Target, where do you live? I mean, even cutting edge games like Unreal Tournament 2003 and Doom 3 use only around 2000-3000 polygons for their player models. And they're using much more optimized engines than the FS2 engine.

[Unknown Target]

Then the FS models need work, because if UT2k3 uses only that many polygons to make such good scenes...well, whatever.
BTW, I live in the USVI, and my rig is an 800 Mhz PIII, 256 MB of RAM, a 30 Gig HD, and  Geforce 2 (Recently upgraded to a Radeon 9000, but it doesn't make that big a diff, except for more anti-aliasing, etc).

Anyways, most games I play I can play at full detail, but for the newer and more complex games *cough*, IL-2 Sturmovik*cough, cough*, I have to turn some polys down.
I forgot how that would benefit my argument, because I lost my train of thought

BTW, what's the harm in upping the poly count limits? You make it sound as if you did that, the entire game would come crashing to Earth, and slow all of the 2.5 GHz systems down. It's not like anyone needs to actually even USE the new limits. Only about 5 ppl I've heard about actually use up ALL of the new spaces in the ships.tbl file that you added in.
Besides, with more polys, we'll see more and more high-quality models, so no more of those cheap diamond-or-triangle shaped guns and stuff, and vasudan ships that actually look rounded and organic.

[mikhael]

Wait! You mean 1 gig of RAM isn't the norm????

No. It is, in fact, a bit weak. some of us have more than that laying around UNUSED, let alone what's in our computers.

even cutting edge games like Unreal Tournament 2003 and Doom 3 use only around 2000-3000 polygons for their player models. And they're using much more optimized engines than the FS2 engine.

Doom3 uses around 5000 for realtime character models, baked down from a starting mesh of around a million. Its one of the things that makes that engine choke on current hardware.

At LEAST up the polycounts to 10000, the current 4000 for a humoungous ships is way too low for today's harware.

Given how much detail you can work into 2000 polys between careful geometry and good mapping, 4000 is more than enough for an entire 4 LOD model. Even my I-War2 models don't go much above about 3500 polys and thats a much more optimised engine.

[Unknown Target]

The re-worked Ursa:







EDIT: I only re-worked the front. I can't think of anything to do to the back.

[Galemp]

Have you done anything except round the barrels? Try modeling in some texture detail, like missile bays and grooves around the hull.

[Unknown Target]

Good Lord! I put in new barrels, a new side thing that holds them, lengthened the engines, rounded the top turrets, enlarged the missle pods, and made the "vents" in front actually 3D!

EDIT: Plus, if I put in those missle bays you want, then ask for higherpolycounts, then you'll start *****ing and moaning about how "all I did was do it in 3 mouseclicks, oh wow".  
Stupid &*()#&(*&^()!!!!!!!!!*#&:mad:

[Solatar]

This is why higher polycounts are almost a waste. Nobody is going to notice what you'v done. When I saw that Ursa I saw the rounded barrels, and then I saw that it looked vasudan. Nothing else.

EDIT: Well I did notice that the side guns are on the wrong side.

[Unknown Target]

Two things:

1. The guns are on the right side.

and, 2:

I can't play FS2 with these graphics anymore. And the gameplay requires almost no skill. It's just who can turn the tightest, and who has the bigger guns.
Good day, I'm going to do something fun, like play the graphical treat, Mechwarrior IV, or maybe just make a model. I'll even play Jane's F/A-18, just to get some good, hard gameplay.

[Rampage]

Okay...  You people want to make Freespace 2 as "modern" as possible.  I don't see that happening with the current progress in the SCP right now.  Engine modifications are COMPLETELY - how can I put this - out of bounds.  Try not to get angry at me right now.  If you really want a new engine with new high-tech graphics and effects, then why not rewrite the code entirely?  The engine code is about four years old.  If you want to change a piece of software made back in 1998, I just don't see that happening - not anytime soon.

Another thing, most people who initially bought Freespace 2 [used] to have older computers (E.G. Video Ram of - say - 8MB).  Despite people's persistent urge to keep their system up to date, some people aren't, myself included.  I'm old.  I don't have the resources and energy to keep updating my system year after year.  I find it POINTLESS!  The stuff will get obsolete anyway in several years.  New games such as Metal of Honor, Doom 3, and Unreal Tournament 2003 are initially designed for multiplayer PS2 battles anyway.  (That's what I heard.)  Featurewise, I think Freespace 2 is good enough being Freespace 2.  Don't make it like Doom 3.  It's just not worth it making a four-year old game into something that just came out.  Instead, try to fix the numerous bugs, add in new gameplay features, simple graphics and lighting, etc.

I conclude my message.
[Holds up American History Textbook: Teacher's Edition to Prepare in Event of Audience Hurling Sharp Objects]

[Unknown Target]

I didn't say I wanted a new engine, did I? I said that I wanted the poly counts upped.
BTW, admins, delete this thread before I go bonkers.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
I didn't say I wanted a new engine, did I? I said that I wanted the poly counts upped.
BTW, admins, delete this thread before I go bonkers.

[color=33ff00]UT you shouldn't be miffed, I have to admit that the Ursa didn't look much different to me except for the barrels. I guess it's because we couldn't see it in comparison to the original.

I don't think that the engine is so inflexable as to be upgradable either, with most of those talented source code guys planning the addition of DirectX 8 effects it must have a fair amount of room for updating. Gone are the days when we said 'you can't do that, it's hardcoded into the EXE', now the community has the code and from some of the fantastic features that have been added already I think that the game has a lot of potential. [/color]

[DTP]

Originally posted by Maeglamor


[color=33ff00]UT you shouldn't be miffed, I have to admit that the Ursa didn't look much different to me except for the barrels. I guess it's because we couldn't see it in comparison to the original.

I don't think that the engine is so inflexable as to be upgradable either, with most of those talented source code guys planning the addition of DirectX 8 effects it must have a fair amount of room for updating. Gone are the days when we said 'you can't do that, it's hardcoded into the EXE', now the community has the code and from some of the fantastic features that have been added already I think that the game has a lot of potential. [/color]

call in the national guard, the marsians have landed .

[Unknown Target]

The only differences I've actually noticed so far are the new lights, the fighter beams, Alt-Pause, and the headlights.
I mean, what's the point of increasing the engine's power to put in more pixels per scene? The people with new hardware can now crush Freespace, bench-mark-wise, and the ppl with older hardware don't have the power required for it (most likely, T&L, arguably the most benneficial thing that's being added, won't be supported by those low-end ppl's video cards).
It might add about 20 FPS, but with a game that any PC bought within the past 3 to 4 years can run without difficulty, it's not like without that incrememntal boost, it's going to rock our world.
Just my $0.02

Don't get me wrong, I think the SCP is a great effort by the community, but the things that are immediately noticable should be put in first, along with anything required to run it, then the background stuff. Also, we're putting in new abilities for texturing, right? Well, what's the point of doing that if you're still using 4 to 5 year-old textures? The SCP should be expanded to also have an update for the stuff already in the game.

[mikhael]

Join the project. Make a difference. Don't rant.

[phreak]

we need time to do a bunch of stuff you are requesting.

with the loss of RT due to disconnection, we are down 1 important coder

[Unknown Target]

I would join the project, except for the fact that there's nothing I can do. And, if you read over this entire thread, you'll see I'm already trying to do related things,  mikhael.

[daveb]

::sips a vodka & 7UP::

This is fun. And people wonder why so many games take 4 years to come out...

[Sesquipedalian]

Originally posted by daveb
::sips a vodka & 7UP::

This is fun. And people wonder why so many games take 4 years to come out...

[phreak]

lol

[mikhael]

daveb:  BEST. RESPONSE. EVAR.