[Rictor]

pessemism = teh bad

Ok guys, yeah facts are facts. But the better question would be: how to revive the community, give it new life. I am yet to see another space shooter that approaches FS2. The problem is people are demoralised. Its an old engine, its kinda hard to mod, and rarely anything gets completed. The first question is, do you really care if it dies. ARe you willing to put up an effort to counter this process, or are you just like whatever. It really sucks that a bunch of the best modders like Aldo and the TBP guys are loosing interest. Cause if there was a real effort, FS2 could be given new life in a new engine, game or whatever.

Thats the thing, whats your ideas for saving FS2 or giving it new life. And more importantly, do you even care.

[Nico]

the only idea I have ( concerning myself, I'm not making a generalisation there ) is to just to move to something else.
that would at least get rid of all those "why do you want to do that? there's nothing like that in FS2, it would go against the spirit blablabla crap crap" **** I read in the source code and modding forums.
the FS2 universe ( and all the backward compatibility induced ) has become a bane for modding, it's a limitation more than anything else now.

[Rictor]

Are you talking about the FS2 engine, or the universe. If you mean egine, then yeah, we need something new and shiny, and something that will still be new and shiny 2 years from now. If you mean the universe, then I dont agree. The universe is what people like around here, thats why we're all here. So messing with that is a no no..

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]I'd often thought of asking for a community effort for one particular mod, get it done and dusted, there's no doubt that the skill is here but I've always felt that people had 'better things to do'.

We all came here for a reason, to have fun and for a percentage of the people here, make something we wanted to see in the game, a scenario we thought was interesting or unique, asthetically pleasing models, an interesting plot. Art...

As everyone is painfully aware Real Life™ has an annoying habit of stepping in and halting whatever work we want to do in favour of the work we're obliged to do, that's why I personally have always kept the projects I've worked on small in scale.
I think this is a fantastic community but it currently has far less focus than it did when we got the source, everything's cooled off as we realise that what we want to see this game do involves hard work or something beyond our current skills.

As for the other part of the denizens here, the gamers; mostly who either lurk until something interesting pops up or who just like to discuss things of interest to them, well they could do this on any board. How many games are around now that you'd prefer to play? A lot I'd guess. And how can you blame them, a game is our method of having fun, what's the point of sticking at it unless you're getting either the gratification of either winning or of increasing your skill level?


Realistically the only way that freespace can become a crowd puller is if we make it exciting, something that requires commitment and hard work. For me the question is not 'is freespace dead?', the question is 'do we want freespace to be dead?'.
I very much hope not.
[/color]

[diamondgeezer]

For the record, I still love to play the FS2 campaign every month or two. I usually sit and blast throuch it in two evenings. It's still great as ever.

As for the enthusiasm for modding, well - whenever I get a bit bored, I just go and watch an epsidoe or two of Space: Above And Beyond. Afterwards, I can't help but jump on my comp and work on my mod for a while (whilst listening to Johnny Cash, of course)

BTW, did I mention the website?

[karajorma]

Jeez. Is everyone on a downer tonight or what?

I really don't know what you guys are on but I've been looking at the TBP forums over at volitionwatch and the place is buzzing with newbies making missions. I certainly don't see much sign of the TBP team getting board of FS2 so the spirit of pessimism seems to only be affecting this particular site.

If you don't want FS2 to die I suggest getting the word out that the game exists more. If only 30,000 copies we sold then there are millions of people out there who haven't ever tried the game. A little pimping of projects like the Star Wars mod and TBP could easily bring us hundreds of new fans.

As many people have said it's just a case of do we want to keep FS2 alive rather than is it dead.

[diamondgeezer]

I'm not on a downer. I've got a S:AAB website


(last pimp for today - g'night, everybody!)

[Unknown Target]

I'll give you three games, and tell you what I like about them. Some of the stuff I like about the other games, I can do in FS2, but no one seems to really actually care.


Here it is:

Independence War 2: Fun physics that require more than just shooting skills: it requires actual thinking.

Macross VFX2 (Just beat it, I think, froze up before I could save): Fast-paced battles, great universe, and very, very cool missle storms.

Macross VO: Good physics (almost as good as I-War 2, but more fun), cool universe, and cool animations.


Now, except for the animations part, I can put every single thing I mentioned into FS2. I would, too and release it to the public, except for one small problem: no one cares. If I release it, it'll get knocked down to the bottom of the page by a bunch of newbie questions, I won't bump it, because I don't want to be rude, and it will just fade into obscurity. What this community needs, if it wants this game to survive, is a centralized, highly motivated core of people working to release a collective MOD that will update FS2 to semi-new standards.

I volounteer, if that ever starts. I can do phyics, battle pacing, art, and storyline.

[IceFire]

Originally posted by karajorma
Jeez. Is everyone on a downer tonight or what?

I really don't know what you guys are on but I've been looking at the TBP forums over at volitionwatch and the place is buzzing with newbies making missions. I certainly don't see much sign of the TBP team getting board of FS2 so the spirit of pessimism seems to only be affecting this particular site.

If you don't want FS2 to die I suggest getting the word out that the game exists more. If only 30,000 copies we sold then there are millions of people out there who haven't ever tried the game. A little pimping of projects like the Star Wars mod and TBP could easily bring us hundreds of new fans.

As many people have said it's just a case of do we want to keep FS2 alive rather than is it dead.

TBP forums are indeed buzzing...with all kinds of people!  I'm starting to dry up a little on this scene...having been here since early 1998...thats 5 years hanging around FS stuff.  In general, TBP aside, things are probably going to dry up.  I want to get BWO out the door and I'm probably going to assist a few guys get some projects done and that sort of thing but the greatest problem is that FreeSpace 2 hasn't been republished since the Space Sim of the Year Edition came out.  No whitebox version, no nothing.  Its virtually impossible to get your hands on FS2 because Interplay doesn't sell it.  They still sell Descent: FreeSpace...but not FreeSpace 2.  Ahh whatever.  That company killed FreeSpace and I'll remain bitter about it

FreeSpace 2 is dying...so a time will come when the community starts to really dry up.  But I don't think were quite there yet.

[Unknown Target]

To add to that, someone needs to make a damn banner for HLP so we can put it in the lineup!
I've tried, but my image editing is hampered by the fact that I only have MS Paint.

[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by IceFire


FreeSpace 2 is dying...so a time will come when the community starts to really dry up.  But I don't think were quite there yet.

We're too close to it. That's what worries me.

[Kamikaze]

I also recommend that a concentrated effort should be made for freespace, at the moment most modders/coders are doing what they want off of their own ideas (which is sensible, it's their time). But that gets little done.

I believe it'd be helpful if coders would make more code for specific large-scale projects and focused on major things like the engine rehaul which will benefit everyone.

So maybe people need some selflessness and sacrifice to build something for the sake of the whole community? That may sound a bit arrogant of me (after all, it's your volunteer time) but it's probably the most efficient thing to do now.

[Unknown Target]

Everybody, please look at this thread:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,15470.msg295596.html#msg295596

[Black Wolf]

Do you kow what I read in this topic? An isolated community. One that is practically killing itself. In the past, I've spent time on other forums, discussing FS2, and I've seen FS2 discussions on unrelated forums in which I did not directly participate.

Never, have I once seen anybody say anything negative about FS2 except for the fact that they couldn't find it when they went to look for it. The HOTU release, if we were to directly support it and to shamelessly pimp it on other sci fi gaming boards, allows us to do what interplay wouldn't, and bring in new players.

Think abut it - we have a damned fine community here - we have a great game, plenty of history (they may seem old to us, but I think new members would be well pleased with the number of available mods/campagns/missions), a modding system that we've worked out to a T and enough people who know how to do it that getting newbs involved would be almost ridiculously simple - everything. With a bit of coordination on our part (Collecting all the campaigns together for Newbs to find, possibly putting the missing files from HOTU up for DL somewhere) and a damned lot of pimping, I know we can get more people here, and keep them.

I would also like to say one thing. I played FS2 last night. Just for fun. And I enjoyed myself. The game still looked damned fine (and this was just FS2, no glowmaps or tiled beams or anything else needed). The missions I was playing were still fun and emersive. Whether there's a community here or not to enjoy the game, I know for one that I, as an individual, will be enjoying the game for a very long time to come.

[Xelion]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
FS2 is simply not interseting to play anymore.
For instance, right now, I'm going to play a game. It will be a space combat game. However, rather than going to play FS2, I'm going to go play Macross VFX-2 on my Playstation emulator (srry if that stuff isn't allowed around here). Why? Because VFX2 offers something interesting. You get to transform, do ground missions, against AI that is at least somewhat of a challenge (even if you yourself is hampered by the game). FS2 is simply shoot, shoot, shoot, no actual skill required. All you have to do is aim at the lead reticle. There's no fancy manuevering, besides simply rotating on a dime so you can put your guns on target.

I think in time the SCP coders will eventually include the physics and manoeuvrability coding into the system in which the players ship will move and handle differently...but that I think will be at least a while.

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Now, except for the animations part, I can put every single thing I mentioned into FS2. I would, too and release it to the public, except for one small problem: no one cares. If I release it, it'll get knocked down to the bottom of the page by a bunch of newbie questions, I won't bump it, because I don't want to be rude, and it will just fade into obscurity. What this community needs, if it wants this game to survive, is a centralized, highly motivated core of people working to release a collective MOD that will update FS2 to semi-new standards.

This particular paragraph caught my mind - why - because it reminds me of interplay and how there advertising sector poorly promoted Freespace2...don't you think that if theres a big update in a campaign the news writers for the sites should be informed and sticky forum posts should be made - oh and there also should be a link for replies in the campaign post so that post isn't overpopulated by replies...

[deep_eyes]

Ima repeat what i said in the other thread ( http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,15470.msg295596.html#msg295596 ); and black wolf i agree entirely. i got of people in other forums into FS2, hell these more then we will ever know cause they dont know we EXIST!!!!!

-------------------

In my opinion, thats what the SCP is doing this very moment. it just doesnt happen as fast as of us would like it to go, but there doing just that. I know DAVEB just at home watching us handle our buisness and knows we;ve got something good, and when its finally acomplished, we're going to reach a level that many old games never will make.

honestly, its like the Freespace - Freelancer debate. if Freespace was in Freelancer, but Freelancer played like Freespace, OF PEOPLE WOULD BE HAPPIER THEN ANYTHING. But, that would be in a perfect world. the most we can get is the Freelancer mods, even then there limited.

Now, if someone got the bright IDEA to attempt a massive Freelancer-Freespace converstion, make EVERY freespace system planet ship species etc, then that would be an achievement for a game and a universe that has spanned 5+ years, and is so rich in story that the current FS2 engine can only hint at. and mind u, V did a good job at it.

so i dunno if anything we just need to be patient.

[Xelion]

From that there is still more promotion that could be done - like meta tags (for search engines), banners that run through gamespy and other game domains, more promotion the bigger the community..

[Knight Templar]

Ok, A few good points have been brought up in here.

 People don't want to volunteer time to work on something they don't even enjoy anymore. I admit to not liking some things about projects and it's hard to work with something you don't enjoy. But the you feel the pressuire that the community is dying and you need to do your part, but then you don't even want to. really confusing.

My point is that what the community needs is a big [rpject, compareable to an FS3, but it'll never happen. One being, with Freespace's age and all the ideas and campaigns, you'll never get anyone to decide on a Plot. Two, there's always the thought of "But what did V actually come up with?" that would question whatever plot that was miraculously agreed on. And three, people will never come to a consesnus and will want to work on their own ****, just like now.

So the only real alternative being a project like the SCP. FS is so old and left so open ended that it can't really have an ending as far as I'm concerned. Well, that came out wrong. More along the lines of FS can't and The Ending. Too many possibilities. Which is a burden, but also the whole draw to Freespace , IMO. Yet it's also the reason why the community won't last for much longer. Twisted...

Ok, enough with the ranting. Bassically, the way you guys present it, the only way we could 'save the community' is to get word out of us (to a gaming site/mag) as a game that is extremely moddable and easy at that. That would get us the fresh meat we need. (****, we can't even get word out to 3dap though we really need a banner). We could also use a Community (if not, then just major) project. Similiar to what I beleive Twisted Infinites started off as. The only problem would be comming up with sometihng everyone likes, but I mean, if every fredder made 1 mission, it wouldn't be that hard.

... Seems I've lost track of what I was saying... reminds me of this thread.

[deep_eyes]

AND LASTLY! THERE SHOULD BE NO REASON WE START TRYING TO FLAME EACH OTHER OVER OPINION! MY MATRIX REVIEW THREAD HAD OF GOOD KNOWLEDGE GOING ON, CAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH PHILOSOPHY IN IT, THAT WE AS A COMUNITY TRIED TO DECRYPT THE DAMN THING. AND BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CANT REFRAME FROM ACTING CHILDISH, THE BOSS CAME DOWN AND WARNED THEM MORE THEN ONCE, AND CLOSED A DAMN GOOD THREAD. THERE SHOULD BE NO REASON WE GET AT EACH OTHER NECKS! IF WE FALL OFF HLP, THEN WE START FALLING OFF THE GAME, THE PROJECTS, THEN THE SCP, THE SOURCE CODE WE FAUGHT FOR SO LONG TO GET, AND WE;LL LOOSE IT DUE TO BORDEM AND INPATIENTNESS AND OVER PROUD PEOPLE WHO JUST DONT KNOW HOW TO RESPECT EVERYONES OPINION. ----->

---------------

now my happy side, look im tired of the bickering. the worst thing that can happen in a family, is the fighting and petty drama. we start loosing our key member's, then were going to loose entire communities, projects, then, the SCP as well... and in the end, i know i wouldnt keep in touch with half of the peeps for whatever reason in here, and end up probrbaly on a freelancer forum.... cause atleast there they got some decency to apreciate the others opinion.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
We could also use a Community (if not, then just major) project. Similiar to what I beleive Twisted Infinites started off as.
 

That was a piss off - if F2S hadn't gone comatose when it had I honestly believe that TI could have at least partially filled the nieche for a high quality community based project. But F2S did die, and now it's become just another campaign. Ah well. Such is life.

That doesn;t mean I'm gonna stop making it though