Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Deepblue on February 22, 2006, 07:53:39 pm
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Since I know this forum just loves politically charged debate material, I figured that it could be put to good use. I am currently writing an affirmative case with the resolution:
The United States federal government should substantially decrease its authority either to detain without charge or to search without probable cause.
Specifically with reference to racial profiling. Now, I'm having a hard time finding sources proving the HARM, aka that racial profiling exists and it is a problem. In fact, many of the stuff I find off of google is trying to debate the opposite. As such, I was hoping someone here knows where I could find said documents.
Thanks.
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This is too broad a subject to even comment on. What you are looking for is not going to be found using the terms that you provided. If you narrow your scope, and investigate multiple matters independantly, you will find that most if not all will conflict with every other.
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Specifically, racial profiling targeted at "terrorists!" at airports/border crossings.
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You don't have proof racial profiling exists?
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The articles I found argued against it. Which sucks for my case.
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You've never heard of DWB?
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I haven't seen any kind of official proof, but I'm sure it happens.
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Yeah it's out there heh me and sandwich were "randomly" selected for extra screening at every airport we went through in the States because we came from the ME you would think they would make an exception for American Israelies but I guess not... :doubt:
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Yeah it's out there heh me and sandwich were "randomly" selected for extra screening at every airport we went through in the States because we came from the ME you would think they would make an exception for American Israelies but I guess not... :doubt:
If you were Saudi they'd probably have let you straight through.........
(that's how something like 9 of the 12 9/11 hijackers got into the country IIRC, on a special fast-track visa scheme for Saudi citizens introduced to counteract more strenuous border security and checking measures).
IIRC statistics do show (on the subject of racial profiling) more black people are - proportionally - arrested or stopped as suspects. Doubt there would be an official piece of legislation on that, though. I'd focus more on the lowering of a burden of proof and how that increases the likelihood of lax, profiling derived investigation techniques.
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Yeah it's out there heh me and sandwich were "randomly" selected for extra screening at every airport we went through in the States because we came from the ME you would think they would make an exception for American Israelies but I guess not... :doubt:
That sux. =/
On a lighter note, where were you guys going? :)
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Thing about racial profiling is that it's built into the human brain.
An example happened when I worked for the Police. A video was shown regarding IRA Terrorists, and the example showed a guy with a strong Irish accent driving a white Transit Van. For four days afterwards, the only Anti-Terror stop and searches were of Irish men driving White Vans.
It's a terrible thing, but it's human nature alas, we like to put labels on our 'enemies', after all, what's the difference to the human brain of 'Has black and yellow stripes' and 'Has dark skin'. I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying nothing should or could be done about it, but I am saying it's natural.
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Coppa's!
Quick eject the cargo before they scan us!
:p
Nothing to see here officer... *whistles innocently* :D
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Yea, you're not gonna have a hard time finding official government documents "Study shows we don't like blacks and arabs"
I would look more for university studies and (god bless em) lawsuits.
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Yeah it's out there heh me and sandwich were "randomly" selected for extra screening at every airport we went through in the States because we came from the ME you would think they would make an exception for American Israelies but I guess not... :doubt:
That sux. =/
On a lighter note, where were you guys going? :)
actually it was pretty ammusing... our father started telling the gaurds how he appreciates the extra screening but they dont need to lie and tell us that it's "random" he would tell them we knew how it works blah blah the secruity guys would just get offended and pissed and be like "sir its random security screening please come with us" dumb dumb dumb.
We were just on our way to visit a bunch of family and friends NY, KS, FL....
Don't get me wrong though I support racial profiling... well not racial profiling, rather, I support national profiling...
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I know a guy who has family in the US, and he visisted them a few years back after 9/11. At the time he had a bit of a beard going and longish hair, so he got pulled away to be interviewed by a 'homeland security officer', who shouted 'we've got a phase 2 here!'.
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He should have asked where the Nuclear Wessels were ;)
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the cops in our neighborhod got in trouble
an investigation was done into the race/percentage arrest rate and compared to the city's ethnic makeup percentage
they found the ethnicity for thte average arrest to be:
30% black
65% Mex.
5% White
in comparison to the city makeup which is about:
55% Mex.
15% Black
30% White
so they made a big deal and blew it out of proportion and said something about how the arrest percentages should be the same as the city percentages. More simply put by this investigation: the cops are racial profiling. bull****. the cops in my neighborhood arrest whoever does criminal activity, they cant control which races choose to participate in such activities. The cops were then forced by the judge (or something like that i cant remember for sure) to arrest more whites and mexicans and less blacks.
Now, How is this bettering law enforcement again?
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A lot of people misinterpret what Racial Profiling is. In many cases it's not a question of policy or agreed practice, it's just the fact that there are, and always will be, people who, when seeing a group of white youths and a group of black youths, be looking more for criminal activity amongst one ethnic group. So the white youths may be doing something illegal, but the officer is so busy keeping an eye on the black youths he does not even see that they are doing so.
It's not a deliberate thing, it is slightly racist, but it is also human nature to be so. Screaming and shouting about it will worsen the situation, not improve it.
And saying it should be the same percentages as the city is a stupid thing to say, it doesn't take social/living conditions into account, or the class divide that inevitably grows. Even that, in a way, can be traced back to 'racial profiliing'.
Assuming that every white officer is looking for black criminals is also as much racial profiling as assuming all blacks are criminals in the first place.
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the cops in our neighborhod got in trouble
an investigation was done into the race/percentage arrest rate and compared to the city's ethnic makeup percentage
they found the ethnicity for thte average arrest to be:
30% black
65% Mex.
5% White
in comparison to the city makeup which is about:
55% Mex.
15% Black
30% White
so they made a big deal and blew it out of proportion and said something about how the arrest percentages should be the same as the city percentages. More simply put by this investigation: the cops are racial profiling. bull****. the cops in my neighborhood arrest whoever does criminal activity, they cant control which races choose to participate in such activities. The cops were then forced by the judge (or something like that i cant remember for sure) to arrest more whites and mexicans and less blacks.
Now, How is this bettering law enforcement again?
I think, statistically, there is not an equal racial discrepancy upon crime rates when it comes to actual conviction. The criticism over this no doubt stems to the times when a black guy could be stopped and/or arrested simply for being in the 'wrong' area.
Can I ask, do you have the ethnicity-based conviction rates or the ethnic makeup of your specific neighbourhood (rather than the whole-city makeup)?
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When I went to America the year after 9/11 I got stopped a couple of times at the airport. I said to myself that if I got stopped in the UK I was going to loudly ask if "Is it cause I is black" in my best Ali G accent :)
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When I went to America the year after 9/11 I got stopped a couple of times at the airport. I said to myself that if I got stopped in the UK I was going to loudly ask if "Is it cause I is black" in my best Ali G accent :)
Yeah, if you did that in the US they'd probably shoot you, cavity search you, or cavity search and then shoot you.
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Yep. Which is why I wasn't dumb enough to say it there :)
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"Sir, do you know your size of jumpsuit?"
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BTW, Splinter, when we got stopped it was because our tickets were flagged; remember I learned to spot the flag and went up to the gate security guy, handed him our tickets, and told him he needed to take us aside for a random security check? ;) They flagged the tickets because we were flying domestically, but the tickets had been bought overseas.
Anyway, racial profiling, and to a greater extent behavioral profiling, saves lives every day here. I've absolutely no qualms with being asked how I'm doing by a security guard every time I try to board a bus here (my main mode of transportation, which I take at least twice a day) - he's getting me to talk in order to ascertain both my accent (to make sure it's not an Arabic accent) as well as my response to being confronted (am I cool with it, do I get defensive or nervous, etc).
Neither do I have qualms about having my bag searched and having to walk through a metal detector gate thingy every time I enter or leave the (crappy old) mall/office complex I work in. I know most of the security guards, they know me, and I'm very grateful that they still search my bag (everyone's bags get searched) - I'd rather not have some Arab worker in the building form a friendship with the guard and be able to get through the door on that basis alone, without being checked. Such people, while they may not be terrorists, are the perfect target for recruitment by Hamas as "insiders".
I make sure to specifically thank any guard who checks my bag every time I go through a security check at a mall, grocery store, pharmacy, cafe, restaurant, movie theater, etc. They risk their lives, doing things that gets them yelled at by impatient people, day in, day out, so I can sit in a restaurant in downtown Jerusalem, in the middle of this crazy situation, with FAR less fear than I would experience walking the streets of NY, DC, or London at night. :yes:
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LoL.
Sometimes I'll have a bit of a racist thought when someone of a particular minority (or majority) pisses me off, I'll curse myself and then think of something else to say / do. I hate society for what they've driven into my head at times, and then myself for allowing it to sink in. =/
But in my defense, I only think those thoughts at morons who are being an asshat and start something first.
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LoL.
Sometimes I'll have a bit of a racist thought when someone of a particular minority (or majority) pisses me off, I'll curse myself and then think of something else to say / do. I hate society for what they've driven into my head at times, and then myself for allowing it to sink in. =/
But in my defense, I only think those thoughts at morons who are being an asshat and start something first.
...*click* (http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2006/02/17/botheration/) :p
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BTW, Splinter, when we got stopped it was because our tickets were flagged; remember I learned to spot the flag and went up to the gate security guy, handed him our tickets, and told him he needed to take us aside for a random security check? ;) They flagged the tickets because we were flying domestically, but the tickets had been bought overseas.
Don't be so proud, sir... it doesn't take much effort to spot "SSSS" in an otherwise unused space on a ticket.
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Don't be so proud, sir... it doesn't take much effort to spot "SSSS" in an otherwise unused space on a ticket.
Was that what it was? I honestly forget by now; I was more "proud" of having been a keen enough observer to spot the ticket lady pointing out the SSSS to the guard. Whatever. ;)
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Supossedly Secretly Seditious Suspect?
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Supossedly Secretly Seditious Suspect?
:lol: :yes: