Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: JoeLo on February 23, 2006, 02:51:51 pm
-
A couple quick questions.
What kind of graphics cards to PS2s use
What kind of BUS?
Can I use it in my computer?
Who makes them?
How much built in VRAM?
Thanks
-
/cockpunch
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2#Technical_specifications should be able to answer most general hardware questions about it. A few that are missing are #3 (no) and #5 (4mb). I can also recommend google, because I had no idea aobut any of it 5 minutes ago and that's about how long it took to find out.
-
A couple quick questions.
What kind of graphics cards to PS2s use
What kind of BUS?
Can I use it in my computer?
Who makes them?
How much built in VRAM?
Thanks
What Kind of graphics card does it use?
The "Emotion-Engine/Graphics Synthesizer""
What kind of Bus?
Rambus with a speed of 3.2GB/s(system)/47GB/s{video)
Can I use it in my computer?
No
Who Makes them?
Toshiba and Sony
How much Built in VRAM?
32MB Rambus of total system RAM which is used for GFX also(4MB)
-
Thanks, after posting this I researched it. Apparently it sucks lol.
-
Check out the PS3's expected price:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20060221082342.html
-
Thanks, after posting this I researched it. Apparently it sucks lol.
What do you expect? The PS2 is a contemporary of the Dreamcast.
-
the PS2's only saving grace was the sheer number of games available to it.
just note that the PS2 has absolutely sweet bugger all texture memory
-
Damn, at $900 you could just go with a good PC instead...
-
the PS2's only saving grace was the sheer number of games available to it.
just note that the PS2 has absolutely sweet bugger all texture memory
Huge bandwidth though, IIRC.
-
They wouldn't sell it at $900, as that'd be suicide. If anything, they'll take a loss or delay it.
-
They wouldn't sell it at $900, as that'd be suicide. If anything, they'll take a loss or delay it.
They'll take a loss, same as MS do with the 360 and almost every newly released console ever has done.
-
Except MS can afford it. Sony is already in the hole, and if they take a $400 dollar loss on each console, it would appear to be business suicide.
-
Except MS can afford it. Sony is already in the hole, and if they take a $400 dollar loss on each console, it would appear to be business suicide.
Sony are banking on the impact upon blu-ray sales, for one thing. It may be somewhat risky, but I seriously doubt Sony would be positioning themselves for financial suicide in any case; I'd be pretty sure they can survive on a revenue double that of MS (NB: Sony are apparently on a big cost-cutting restructuing at the moment, to cut expenditure by 40%). It's par for the course to take heavy initial losses, in any case.
Incidentally, rumour has it that MS are losing about $300-400 on the 360, as well (IBM source reportedly says it's $715 to make). I'm not sure how other loss-leaders compare between Sony and MS, of course; I do know that they lost about $300m on the 360, and reportedly $4bn on the Xbox (1) all in all.
-
The only thing is that Blu-Ray won't see wide use like DVD, because unlike DVDs which made an instant difference on any TV, it will only affect those who have HDTVs.
Not only that, but HVD is on its way.
-
The only thing is that Blu-Ray won't see wide use like DVD, because unlike DVDs which made an instant difference on any TV, it will only affect those who have HDTVs.
Not only that, but HVD is on its way.
I don't believe HD-DVD (which I presume you mean by HVD) has the same range of support as Blu-ray; largely because HD-DVD is easier to pirate (which means blu-ray has even more hideous DRM). Also the PS3 - as Sony intends it - could be valueable in raising blu-ray adoption as a relatively low-cost player. Universal Studios is the only studio the major six still exclusively supporting HD-DVD, and even that it's not an exclusive contract to do so.
Certainly I know a lot of people credit the PS2 with a similar effect for DVDs. (it's worth bearing in mind that ultimately, adoption is down to what is being made by the movie, etc, publishers - if DVD becomes sidelined as a format, people won't have so much of a choice. and, unlike the video-dvd change, AFAIK it's likely early blu-ray players will allow the use of DVDs)
although isn't the HDTV thing also an arguement against both the Xbox360 and PS3 as game consoles? (as the primary first-gen difference really is only noticeable on HDTV)
-
I'd have to back aldo on this. Also, more and more TVs are switching to HD ready, if not with HD tuners built in. Give it 5-10 years for them to be the norm at most.
-
i believe i read an article a week or two ago that they are pushing off the release date most likely till decemeber...which makes sense with all the holidays and crap.
-
I'd guess November if they push it back. Black Friday sales and all that.
-
I don't believe HD-DVD (which I presume you mean by HVD)
HVD can hold 3.9 Terabytes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc
-
3.9 Terabytes.
*Urinates in shock*
-
I don't believe HD-DVD (which I presume you mean by HVD)
HVD can hold 3.9 Terabytes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc
Ah, HVD - forgot about that. I think that's really a different market to both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD though; much like how we still use CDs for audio despite having DVDs for video (etc), I doubt there will be much of a need for TBs of space in the markets Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will be sold in. Odd s are we'll see HD-DVD and Blu-ray in the media/multimedia sector (games, movies) and HVD (or similar) used by companies storing large amounts of data.
-
Aldo, HVD is HOLODISK (terabytes FTW!). Not HD-DVD.
-
The only thing is that Blu-Ray won't see wide use like DVD, because unlike DVDs which made an instant difference on any TV, it will only affect those who have HDTVs.
Not only that, but HVD is on its way.
although isn't the HDTV thing also an arguement against both the Xbox360 and PS3 as game consoles? (as the primary first-gen difference really is only noticeable on HDTV)
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2601_en.html
Come back after you watch that. That was captured on SD. Not HD.
-
The only thing is that Blu-Ray won't see wide use like DVD, because unlike DVDs which made an instant difference on any TV, it will only affect those who have HDTVs.
Not only that, but HVD is on its way.
although isn't the HDTV thing also an arguement against both the Xbox360 and PS3 as game consoles? (as the primary first-gen difference really is only noticeable on HDTV)
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2601_en.html
Come back after you watch that. That was captured on SD. Not HD.
I said primary first-gen, as in released and demo-ed game I can see on either TV or within shops (which are the primary selling point for any new console - not the games in xx months time).
-
The only thing is that Blu-Ray won't see wide use like DVD, because unlike DVDs which made an instant difference on any TV, it will only affect those who have HDTVs.
Not only that, but HVD is on its way.
although isn't the HDTV thing also an arguement against both the Xbox360 and PS3 as game consoles? (as the primary first-gen difference really is only noticeable on HDTV)
http://www.xboxyde.com/news_2601_en.html
Come back after you watch that. That was captured on SD. Not HD.
I said primary first-gen, as in released and demo-ed game I can see on either TV or within shops (which are the primary selling point for any new console - not the games in xx months time).
That's coming out in 10 days or so. Plus, PGR3 looks awesome on any TV as well.
-
That's coming out in 10 days or so. Plus, PGR3 looks awesome on any TV as well.
But it's not out yet, is it (March 10th release)? So we've not seen it in a 'real' context; we've seen the sort of flashy developer picked best shots of it.
And I don't think PGR3 - IMO - looks all that good. Ultimately, it's a racing game; and all the flashy pants detail and accurately modelled leather seat specular maps don't really count for much playing (or watching others playing) it; it's just a zoomed out view of a car, and some tarmac, and the rest becomes superfluous when you focus on that. Flashy close up shots are good for press packs, but they bear bugger all relation to what a player sees.
Which is beside the point. Point was, it's not very fair to damn blu-ray for being most noticeable of HDTV (although I'd imagine the larger size and hence no need to disk swap as a major selling point too), when both the 'big' (i.e. flashy and mouthy) consoles by Sony and MS are blathering on about the 'HDTV generation' and other such claptrap; because how much value is it going to be to people if their £300+ console needs an £800+ TV to actually look its best? The handicaps are similar for both video and gaming in that respect; if you spend that amount of money on something (console or dvd player), you'll naturally moan about what you miss out on.
-
Another thing I feel was missed here. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will have a standard DVD layer on them. This will be to ensure people who still only have DVD players can still watch their HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs in a dvd player. It will be of normal DVD quality though as you will need a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player to play the HD quality film on the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray layers. Just thought I would let people know.
-
Really? Thats good I guess I don't have to sell my left kidney to watch movies :pimp:
-
That's coming out in 10 days or so. Plus, PGR3 looks awesome on any TV as well.
But it's not out yet, is it (March 10th release)? So we've not seen it in a 'real' context; we've seen the sort of flashy developer picked best shots of it.
And I don't think PGR3 - IMO - looks all that good. Ultimately, it's a racing game; and all the flashy pants detail and accurately modelled leather seat specular maps don't really count for much playing (or watching others playing) it; it's just a zoomed out view of a car, and some tarmac, and the rest becomes superfluous when you focus on that. Flashy close up shots are good for press packs, but they bear bugger all relation to what a player sees.
Which is beside the point. Point was, it's not very fair to damn blu-ray for being most noticeable of HDTV (although I'd imagine the larger size and hence no need to disk swap as a major selling point too), when both the 'big' (i.e. flashy and mouthy) consoles by Sony and MS are blathering on about the 'HDTV generation' and other such claptrap; because how much value is it going to be to people if their £300+ console needs an £800+ TV to actually look its best? The handicaps are similar for both video and gaming in that respect; if you spend that amount of money on something (console or dvd player), you'll naturally moan about what you miss out on.
Now I KNOW you havn't even clicked the link to make such an ignorant statement. This footage was not "released" by the developers. It's preview code with many bugs/low-res textures still and is footage of a level played by the person who manages the site and hosted thes video.
And you only EVER play PGR3 in the in-car view. Otherwise you're right.
-
Now I KNOW you havn't even clicked the link to make such an ignorant statement. This footage was not "released" by the developers. It's preview code with many bugs/low-res textures still and is footage of a level played by the person who manages the site and hosted thes video.
And you only EVER play PGR3 in the in-car view. Otherwise you're right.
Was the footage released by a private individual playing the finalized game on their home machine? Then it's of no value to me. We don't know how close any footage is or is not to a final build, nor which features will be retained, etc. This doesn't apply to that video, but all shots. Same as every preview shot of PGR3 (because it's pretty much the only game I can think of built from scratch for the 360, rather than a Rare upgrade to a GC title or a Pc conversion) focused on closeups of lovingly modelled cars, when you'd never be able to play in any sort of viewing showing as such. It was a bit like the mind-numbly pointless 'photo' mode of GT4 in that respect.
And of course I haven't watched it - why would I waste an hour or so and 153mb of HD space to watch a video of a game that I have no wish to consider buying, looks fairly derivative IMO, and is for a console I have intention of buying? And why are you dictating the only way to play a game? Are we to be forced to play games in a certain way to appreciate pointless extra detail? Even in the in-car view, what would you be looking at - the lovingly replicated walnut gearnob, or the track a couple of hundreds down the way?
I'm not saying so much it isn't better graphics - of course it is - just that the whole point is now shoving in these better graphics and doing bugger all to add gamplay... and that when push comes to shove, yer average punter will not see so much of a difference on their 20 inch big telly when either they see the ads, or bring the console home.
-
Ah, HVD - forgot about that. I think that's really a different market to both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD though; much like how we still use CDs for audio despite having DVDs for video (etc), I doubt there will be much of a need for TBs of space in the markets Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will be sold in. Odd s are we'll see HD-DVD and Blu-ray in the media/multimedia sector (games, movies) and HVD (or similar) used by companies storing large amounts of data.
I would love DVD-Audio but I get the feeling that the prices will get jacked up before it goes mainstream. :blah:
-
A. It's on the PC too.
B. It proves you wrong that SD will not see any upgrade.
C. It's BETA code. Not code with features that will be stripped, code that has features yet to be added and optimized.
D. PGR3 provides the most visceral virtual racing currently available. The detailed cockpit replicas help with imersion and make the game feel more real.
-
A. It's on the PC too.
B. It proves you wrong that SD will not see any upgrade.
C. It's BETA code. Not code with features that will be stripped, code that has features yet to be added and optimized.
D. PGR3 provides the most visceral virtual racing currently available. The detailed cockpit replicas help with imersion and make the game feel more real.
a; um...so? I said the game didn't interest me in any case. In any case, I doubt it would run on my Pc, and pound for pound a 360 (if you find one) is probably cheaper than a top-gen upgrade........
b;Sorry? It's a less significant upgrade in my opinion at this stage. To me it's a rather simple equation; less optimized games (new technology), written to run effectively on higher resolution, mean both less of a visual improvement on SDTV than games on the same console running at a fixed SDTV resolution, and less of an immediate improvement upon the best recent/old-gen games (which have the advantage of not catering to higher resolution nor the need to aqquaint oneselve with a new toolset). In any case, of all the released games I've seen so far, the primary change has been higher resolution and anti-aliasing. That will likely change, but it still dampens the arguement.
More importantly, I guess, both Sony and MS have been very keen to champion the 360 and PS3 as heralding the age of 'HD gaming'; in other words to link the console with these expensive TVs in the consumers' minds, almost trying to make them feel obliged to buy (a) HDTV with the console - or neither. Which was essentially my point; the primary marketing push seems to me to centre around the HDTV resolution of the games, probably because the visual difference isn't massively easy to quantify (especially in the first gen)
c; Features are not added in Beta testing; they are added during Alpha. Beta is the process when code is feature-locked and tested for correctness prior to release; all code changes are for corrections. Features can, though, be removed or trimmed during beta if there are unfixable errors relating to them; one example that comes to mind is BF:Vietnam, which cut a number of items from it (B-52 bombers and flare guns in particular), causing much chagrin to magazines that reviewed the beta version (gits). In any case, it's unwise to use a non-finalized version as a judge of the final product; it can cut both ways, either giving an unfairly poor example of the game, or allowing and unfairly positive one (due to the expectation of significant corrections); how many times have we seen magazine previews (even when seen shortly before) that are far, far more positive than the eventually review? I also remember stories - may be wrong here - about concerns over the performance of PGR3 which seemed resolved by revealing it 'only' ran at 720p rather than 1080p.
In any case, features are never added in beta - that'd be blatant stupidity as it would require restarting the whole beta testing process.
d; You opinion, I guess (sounds a bit like a PR soundbite, actually - 'visceral'?!). All I've read (from professional reviewers, like) is that it's essentially a shinier version of PGR2. I doubt added detail in the interiors has or ever will impact gameplay; certainly I'd (for example) rate a few of the N64 games above PS2 and PC equivalents. More importantly, again, the players visual focus is upon the road and opponents in front of them; these flashy cockpits become peripheral vision objects. Obviously you'll see it more and more, replete with motion captured Havk physics furry dice, but I suspect it's down to the developers feeling obliged to add something and keep pace rather than any actual advantage to gameplay. Also gaming is a fundamentally dissasociative medium anyways, and the whole uncanny valley effect numbs the response to graphics; I've not been exactly blown away by anything of late on PC, 360, PS3, etc, although I am now somewhat cynical & numb to the 'bigger, flasher' syndrome affecting most new games, nowadays.
Anyways, to get back on topic. The original criticism you made of blu-ray was that it required HD-TV for full effect, and that low HD-TV ownership would mean DVDs would be dominant. My point was, isn't that equally applicable to next-gen consoles trumpeting the 'HD revolution' or somesuch? As in, why would people upgrade to them if they don't get the full HD-TV effect?
We know, of course, people do anyways. People futureproof in bits and bobs; they don't just go out one day and buy a top of the range everything, unless they're stinking rich. So odds are Blu-ray - or HD-DVD or a similar HD-TV benefitting standard - will gain acceptance, because people will expect it to become adopted. Why release CDs when people have tape decks at home? Etc.
-
Ugh. Fine, be stuck in your rut.
-
And you can stay stuck in yours, Deepblue.
-
an SD-TV would be your oldish type CRT's, and some older Rear projection and projectors, they have a max resolution of 740x480, which is 480i, the first series of digital TV's start at 480p, the HD era tv's are roughly 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, upwards, the latter two are the preferred choice of the next-gen consoles in order to get "the best results" from games.
get a video card with a TV-out, and a 51cm SD-TV (which is a little bigger than a 19" monitor) then run a game, with the display outputting to them both, at the same resolution (try a benchmark of 1024x768 for both) and see the difference between the two.
and as somebody that works with graphics a helluva lot, i know the difference between a SD-TV and what are coming closer and closer to the computer monitor that's sitting on my desk.
-
Actually 720p is the preferred choice for next-gen consoles.
-
Actually 720p is the preferred choice for next-gen consoles.
it's still HD, though. that's my point. 720p may be the preferred choice by the manufacturer, but with most things as done by the end user, the higher choice is always better.
-
No... 1080i is interlaced. And 1080p is godawful costly both in money and in console power use.
-
No... 1080i is interlaced. And 1080p is godawful costly both in money and in console power use.
there's people who'd buy a solid gold xb360 faceplate for 36,000 USD, deepblue, so money is only an issue for those who can't afford it.
besides, most modern HD sets are getting cheaper all the time.
-
I have seen some people say that there are very few TVs with true 1080p support and that most TVs that advertise 1080p have a 1920x1080 panel but inferior input circuitry that will downsample a 1080p input and upsample it back.
-
No... 1080i is interlaced. And 1080p is godawful costly both in money and in console power use.
You're assuming people are smart?
-
Ugh. Fine, be stuck in your rut.
Of buying sensibly priced, entertaining and innovative games and not pissing away money on overly flash electronics that will go down in price vastly in 12 months and offers no really discernable improvement in any case?
Sure.
-
You haven't SEEN any games yet. How can you make that judgement?
-
You haven't SEEN any games yet. How can you make that judgement?
Tell me what games I haven't seen, in capitals or otherwise? (because I honestly don't have a bloody clue what you're on about here)
-
I was referring to the Revolution.
-
I was referring to the Revolution.
Who said anything about the Revolution? I didn't. Actually, I was more thinking of picking up a Gamecube on the cheap, getting a DS when it's reduced to clear way for the 'lite' version, or buying cheaper PC games like (this being the latest consideration) Galactic Civillisations 2 which seem to have a focus on game over graphics. Or simply not buying any next-gen consoles.
I believe I effectively said the 360 and (by extension) PS3 in that post are a waste of money at present and lack any interesting innovations such as gameplay. And you took that to infer it meaning something regarding the Revolution (so you excluded it from the non-innovative, flashy-flashy trend of consoles). Interesting.
Also I would note it applied to HD-TV, given that there's no real support for it (in the UK) bar some channels on Sky that seem to require additional payment.