Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: SuperCoolAl on April 09, 2006, 07:44:22 pm
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First off, the specs:
This is an Evesham Quest Roma T37, based of MSI's MS-1029 chassis (or Megabook M635)
Ati Xpress 200 chipset
Turion 64 MT-37 (approximately equivalent to a 3700+ Athlon 64)
1024MB DDR333 RAM
128MB Mobility Radeon X700
Windows XP Home Edition
All latest graphics/chipset/CPU drivers
Now, my processor should be theoretically running at it's peak clock rate the whole time when under load, which is 2Ghz. When idle, the processor clocks down to 800Mhz to dissipate heat and save power.
The problem I am experiencing is when under load for extended periods of time, while playing games for example, occasionally the CPU will clock down even when under load for about 5 seconds, then speeds back up. During these 5 seconds the gameplay becomes very laggy due to the much reduced clock rate and is downright unplayable as this happens about twice a minute.
The only way to stop this is to completely uninstall the Powernow drivers and also disable Powernow in the BIOS. However under these conditions after a while playing games the laptop turns itself off, which leads me to believe it is a heat issue. This would explain the clocking down under load to avoid overheating. Research on the internet has also lead me to believe this is true.
Now as this thing is only a few months old and is still under warranty do you think I should return it? Definitely seems like the cooling isn't enough!
Opinions, please.
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Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games. It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.
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cut a hole in it somewhere and put in a bigger fan. problem solved.
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Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games. It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.
Odd, this is the first I've heard of a computer not being designed to run at the speed it's meant to borking run at!
cut a hole in it somewhere and put in a bigger fan. problem solved.
I'm quite certain that would void the warranty :lol:
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Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games. It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.
Odd, this is the first I've heard of a computer not being designed to run at the speed it's meant to borking run at!
cut a hole in it somewhere and put in a bigger fan. problem solved.
I'm quite certain that would void the warranty :lol:
you'd find that laptops tend to have more heat issues than a compartively geared PC, lack of airflow is usually to blame, just be happy it clocks itself down, instead of having the core melt through the case onto your lap. :p
there are cooling units available for notebook PC's, but more often than not, they're quite bulky, albiet sitting underneath your notebook.
a couple examples.
http://www.a1-electronics.net/PcHardware/Various/2004/EverCool_NP-201_Oct.shtml
http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/notebook_cooler.html
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Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games. It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.
Odd, this is the first I've heard of a computer not being designed to run at the speed it's meant to borking run at!
But you said it's running at it's proper speed most of the time, right? And this only happens when you play highly processor/memory/disk intensive games, right? Laptops are designed to run applications like MS Word or Internet Explorer fast. But these applications are somewhat bursty and very much I/O bound, whereas a game runs full-bore even if the user is doing nothing. The laptop that's designed to run at 2GHz running XP, word, and explorer may well have trouble running Doom3. So yes, the thing is insufficiently cooled. That's hardly suprising. It may be insufficiently cooled enough to be an inferior laptop, but that doesn't make it defective. I doubt the warrenty would cover it and I doubt a replacement machine of the same configuration would be any better. With laptops, it's a matter of portability over speed, and you're trading the ability to get continual 2GHz performance off for the ability to pick it up and take it with you.
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*scan reading warranty*
Nothing regarding heat/CPU issues in laptops, just the standard mantra about dead pixels.
The only thing that may count is:
Evesham Technology does not give a warranty or guarantee protection for ... c) fitness for any particular purpose not notified to Evesham Technology and agreed in writing at the point of sale or prior to delivery
But that's just too vague. If it came to it I could probably get them over a barrel on the Sale of Goods Act. When I pay for 2Ghz I expect 2Ghz. I wouldn't mind if it was noisier or something if it needed to be to keep it cool, but it's just incapable.
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*scan reading warranty*
not many notebooks have been touted to run games full tilt, i think alienware have been the only ones to actually market such notebook computers to the masses.
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Dell has an XPS line that's supposed to be for that too, but whether that qualifies as a laptop or not (the things weigh like 40 pounds) is another story entirely. Usually the marketing folks take out any references to what the laptop can't do though so unless it's actually supposed to be able to run accelerated graphics at full speed continuously then I don't think you'll get very far complaining that it doesn't. Cooling solutions are probably the better bet.
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Jeez this is a tricky one legally.
They don't really tout the laptop as anything, which is a problem. It's a list of specs on the site and that's it.
Sale of Goods Act says:
Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
...continues
I'm liking the look of the 'freedom from minor defects' part, which ties into the whole 'satisfactory quality' bit.
Dell has an XPS line that's supposed to be for that too, but whether that qualifies as a laptop or not (the things weigh like 40 pounds) is another story entirely. Usually the marketing folks take out any references to what the laptop can't do though so unless it's actually supposed to be able to run accelerated graphics at full speed continuously then I don't think you'll get very far complaining that it doesn't. Cooling solutions are probably the better bet.
Well, in the end, what is any computer 'supposed' to do? I'm pretty sure its not 'supposed' to overheat within a minute of starting a game.
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Computers aren't designed to run games, they are designed to compute. What most people use a computer - and particularly a laptop - for doesn't involve running the processor under load for an extended period of time. They run programs that need speed for responsiveness but most of the time sit idle. Word. Excel. Media Player. IE. Computers that are "supposed" to play games are designed to not only run faster, but to run faster under a more full load.
That's what Turnsky and I are trying to point out, it's not a defect. The manufacturer likely knows it has heat issues - after all the processor knows to throttle down under high-temperature operations. And if they didn't list purpose or describe it's capabilities in any extensive way that this behavior deviates from, you're probably not going to get very far with the warrenty.
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Jeez this is a tricky one legally.
They don't really tout the laptop as anything, which is a problem. It's a list of specs on the site and that's it.
Sale of Goods Act says:
Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
...continues
I'm liking the look of the 'freedom from minor defects' part, which ties into the whole 'satisfactory quality' bit.
Dell has an XPS line that's supposed to be for that too, but whether that qualifies as a laptop or not (the things weigh like 40 pounds) is another story entirely. Usually the marketing folks take out any references to what the laptop can't do though so unless it's actually supposed to be able to run accelerated graphics at full speed continuously then I don't think you'll get very far complaining that it doesn't. Cooling solutions are probably the better bet.
Well, in the end, what is any computer 'supposed' to do? I'm pretty sure its not 'supposed' to overheat within a minute of starting a game.
best i can do is give you some advice if you do decide to return it. if the store won't return/exchange it, go over their heads, and call the manufacturer, much easier to deal with, unless they're like kodak australia and has a vietnamese tech support staff, most are generally helpful.
but as stratcomm said, you may not get far with the warrenty, the best bet would be calling the manufacturer over the store you bought it in any case. if it were a couple of days old, i'd claim DOA on it.
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I've done a little digging deeper- on AMD's website I quote
AMD Turion™ 64 Mobile Technology
Enjoy mobile performance that gives you the freedom to work, relax, and play almost anytime or anywhere.
On Ati's website:
Mobility™ Radeon® X700 - The Performance Leader Designed for True Mobility
Advanced 3D Architecture for Amazing Performance and True Mobility
Mobility™ Radeon® X700 brings a new age of graphics technology and power management to mobile PC users seeking both breathtaking performance and true mobility. With 8 parallel pixel pipelines and breakthrough image enhancement technology, Mobility™ Radeon® X700 provides an extremely smooth, responsive HD gaming experience, putting gamers in control of the most demanding game titles. A radically new architecture based on the latest .11 micron manufacturing process delivers fast mobile performance without sacrificing battery life. GDDR3 memory support helps to deliver ultra-fast data rates and unbelievable acceleration.
The parts manufacturers at least seem to think I should be able to play :)
By the way, this thermal throttling is on every AMD CPU, Opteron, Athlon 64 or Turion 64 (and probably some Intel ones). It doesn't mean it's meant to come into play.
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Yeah, I was going to comment on that being a very high-end GPU for a laptop that's not supposed to do games. However, in this case it's not a matter of the laptop parts being game friendly, it's a matter of the whole assembly being capable. Clearly the parts will run for a few seconds under full load, so the parts aren't the problem. The problem is heatsinking and airflow, which you just won't be able to change in a laptop chassis.
I hope you get somewhere in taking it back, I really do. I just want to warn you that the manufacturer isn't required to supply a replacement for something that isn't broken as far as the system's intended uses are concerned.
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Yeah, I was going to comment on that being a very high-end GPU for a laptop that's not supposed to do games. However, in this case it's not a matter of the laptop parts being game friendly, it's a matter of the whole assembly being capable. Clearly the parts will run for a few seconds under full load, so the parts aren't the problem. The problem is heatsinking and airflow, which you just won't be able to change in a laptop chassis.
I hope you get somewhere in taking it back, I really do. I just want to warn you that the manufacturer isn't required to supply a replacement for something that isn't broken as far as the system's intended uses are concerned.
indeed, under the circumstances of normal operation, you'd experience very little heat issues.
in a gaming situation, however, you'd find that your entire system is working at almost full load, and producing a lot of heat to boot. it ain't broken, just keeping itself from destroying itself in the heat. i'm sure the parts perform rather well separtely, but who you want to talk to is the schmuck who put the whole shebang together.
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Yeah well I'll fire off an email or phone the 'shmuck' this week and see how I go.
I didn't mind you two playing (or not!) Devil's Advocate there, helped me think about this in different ways. What's the Internet for, ey :D
If it isn't covered I'll just say to hell with it and undervolt the CPU and see if that helps.
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i still say cut a hole in it.
Sidecutters rank up there with duct tape, WD40, lighter fluid, and shotguns in sheer STUDDLYNESS
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i still say cut a hole in it.
Sidecutters rank up there with duct tape, WD40, lighter fluid, and shotguns in sheer STUDDLYNESS
he wants to keep his warrenty intact. if it was just outta warrenty, i'd say go for it, but since it isn't, i'd say no. :)
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I have a similar problem on my old Dell laptop. It throttles down to 1/3 speed after about three minutes in any 3D accelerated game and stays at that speed until I restart it, and there is no way to disable the clock throttling in Dell's sad excuse for a BIOS. Recently I've been finding that it even throttles down in Mathematica and Matlab if I make it do something for more than about 40 seconds. It's a complete POS. If it hadn't been a prize for a competition, I would have just returned it immediately when I found out about this.
You could try getting a replacement, but it will most likely have the same problem. As Stratcomm noted, this seems to be a common thing on many laptops except for the heavy desktop replacement models. If you are only playing older games on it, you may be able to get away with running it on the lowest speed setting at all times.
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Yeah, I was going to comment on that being a very high-end GPU for a laptop that's not supposed to do games. However, in this case it's not a matter of the laptop parts being game friendly, it's a matter of the whole assembly being capable. Clearly the parts will run for a few seconds under full load, so the parts aren't the problem. The problem is heatsinking and airflow, which you just won't be able to change in a laptop chassis.
I hope you get somewhere in taking it back, I really do. I just want to warn you that the manufacturer isn't required to supply a replacement for something that isn't broken as far as the system's intended uses are concerned.
I disagree. I think that if I buy a laptop and it can't run at the speed advertised, without overheating, it is perfectly game to take it back. It's like buying a car that's advertised at being able to reach 100 mph on normal roads, but can only run above 40, without overheating after a few minutes. Now, sure, you can never use the freeway, but it's really an issue with the statistics being advertised incorrectly.
Considering the thing has an x700 in it, which is really only useful if you're playing games, I'd say he's perfectly within his rights to demand a refund if it can't make full use of those components without overheating. (Within normal operating conditions, obviously - which should be in the manual somewhere) It could even actually be an assembly issue - possibly the CPU heatsink isn't fully on.
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Again, I agree in theory; I've just had so much trouble trying to get things that are legitimate problems fixed that something that isn't even necessarily within the scope of the warrenty strikes me as being a real challenge to get repaired on the manufacturer's dime. It may be assembly, but if it's legitimately a problem across all of that particular line then that speaks of a design-time error that, once sold, it's really hard to do much about. The games that cause the problem would be interesting to know - I've had my full desktop rig brought to its knees with a GPU due to some of the "latest and greatest" games as the full capabilities of the last couple of generations of graphics cards tend to generate a ton of heat - and what kinds of issues the computer has in general beyond the somewhat vague issues that SuperCoolAl has already told us about.
If I'd had experience with non desktop-replacement style laptops that didn't suffer from this kind of problem when run to their limit, I might have a different opinion on it. But from my experience, degraded performance on high-powered apps tends to be a common theme across all laptops.
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My take on this is:
"If you want to play games, a laptop probably isn't the best machine for the job."
Portables are designed for convenience and, unsurprisingly, portability. Desktops are designed for power and don't have much in the way of size limitations. Since games typically require a lot in the power department, the desktop PC is generally a better choice. You know it's up to the job, and if there're cooling issues there's enough space to chuck in another fan.
Laptops are built to a certain spec and stay there. Desktops can be modified to suit the job. This is why desktop PCs will be superior to laptops until modular portable designs are released.
Which probably won't happen.
Seriously, though. You buy a laptop and expect it to run games? WTF? Laptops generally get rather warm during normal use; of course it's going to overheat in Doom 3!
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Laptops are built to a certain spec and stay there.
Exactly. Thus a laptop should be able to run at full capacity without overheating, because the manufacturer knows what's being put in, how it's going to be put in, etc.
Building something that overheats is basically nullifying the value of the components that cause it to overheat. Or in other words, it's a marketing ploy to get more money without spending the extra money to ensure that the equipment runs properly within normal operating conditions. Again, it's not like he's trying to overclock anything - he's simply running something that causes the components to operate at their maximum safe values for more than 2-3 minutes.
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Exactly. Luckily this doesn't affect FS2 as it's an older game, or if it does the effect isn't that noticeable, so I'm not completely gameless!
I do have a quote from another forum though that's interesting:
From http://www.notebookforums.com/showthread.php?p=1945620#post1945620
It's definitely a heat issue. What you are experiencing is called 'throttling'. The desktop I built a year ago did that a lot for a while because the cooling gel wasn't optimal for a while.
Unless you feel that you are competent enough to open the laptop and check if everything is fine and if it isn't, then fix it, then send it back. It should not throttle. As hot as my laptop runs, it NEVER throttles. The fans turn on like a desktop's, but it doesn't throttle.
If you can open your laptop and check to see if the CPU fan is placed correctly and if it isn't, then do so, the go ahead.
Another thing you may want to know is that many OLD applications take as much CPU usage as they can get. For example, I recently found my old MechCommander game and it always put the CPU under full load no matter what, which consequently made it VERY HOT. It would otherwise run fine on a Pentium II 500Mhz based computer. Thus, if it's an old application that SHOULDN'T be running at full load, find some Athlon compatible software that will allow you to manually underclock your CPU. Try 'Notebook Hardware Control'. Google it. I doubt it supports AMD chips, but check anyway.
Good luck and post back with what you did.
So it doesn't seem to be normal behaviour, I don't want to try underclocking (or opening the case) though as that might void the warranty (I'm being quite wary about stuff like that at the moment!)
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Normal behaviour or not, it's a. fraudulent advertisement and b. palin stupid on behalf of manufacturer IMO.
a. If advertises claim that the laptop does something, it should do it, right? So, if doing thing causes the laptop not being able to do the thing, the laptop can be considered incapable of actually doing the thing in the first place. The car metaphor was quite adequate.
If I plugged a dual turbo on a Nissan Sunny from 1985 and sold it saying that it accelerates to 100 km/h in 8 seconds (not gonna happen but anyway...) and didn't mention that if you accelerate to that 100 km/h three times in a row, the modded engine components produce enough heat that it wont accelerate that fast anymore (or worse, suffers an engine failure), I'd be considered a car dealer from the worst end, I think.
b. It's plain stupid because the manufacturer could achieve the same overall performance with equipment that is not as fast but doesn't generate that much heat either, so it could even be more efficient in long run. As for fast responsiveness in normal programming, I'd agree that a video card of that quality is kinda overshot... Also, if the computer is not full of spyware, a weaker processor would do its work just as well in normal processing, like using Word, Excel, Mediaplayer (:ick:) and other traditional of Windows applications. That processor really comes in useful IN extensive use, but since extensive use causes too much heat, I think it could well be replaced with a weaker processor that could longer and better maintain its original capacity because not generating as much heat.
I suppose a laptop would benefit more of additional memory in using basic applications and, for example, Photoshop and stuff. So it would be as responsive with, say, a little slower video card and a little slower processor, but having 2 GB memory. It would be cheaper to manufacture with lower prices on GPU and CPU, and it would work better along the specs.
One solution would be to connect an additional display, keyboard, mouse and speakers, throw the machine itself into freezer and play along. :rolleyes: A real redneck-1337 solution for cooling problems...
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2GHz for a laptop is not the same as 2GHz for a desktop. The CPU throttling is not there simply to save power. It is there because running the machine at full speed continually causes heat problems.
You're right, the manufacturer does know what's in there. In normal use, the machine should be fine. High-end games on a laptop are not 'normal use'.
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You know something, I think there's an incorrectly mounted fan in there, whenever they speed up I can barely feel any air coming out of the main vent.
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Perhaps it's an intake? :nervous:
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I have almost exactly the same system specs - in an Acer Ferrari 4005 - and it never throttles either, even during 24-hour Oblivion marathons. :) The downside is that the fan is ALWAYS on. But at least the CPU never throttles down. Try turning off things like WiFi and Bluetooth, and pull the battery out too. That might help reduce your temperature a few degrees.
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Thanks Sid, I'll try unhooking the battery now.
No, it's definitely a outlet, I believe there are intakes underneath but there are no other vents on the sides. It kinda sounds obstructed too, unless it's just me imagining things :rolleyes:
But it definitely blew more when I first got it I'm quite sure, when I put my hand right up to the vent now while the fan's on I feel warmth but the force of the air coming out is rather small, which may explain why I don't remember having this problem when I first got it, but maybe I did and I just didn't notice or don't remember.
I'm wary of opening my case because I'm not sure if it's usual that that voids the warranty.
edit- nope no joy. Lasted about 10 minutes in Day of Defeat Source, didn't throttle but instead chose to hard poweroff :mad:
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my laptop plays oblivion just fine, mediumish graphics. i can do farcry, hl2, doom3, and make them all look pretty good
but then my laptop is a beast
Gateway 7510GX, Athlon64 (does the same scaling thing, but not when i play) 3700+, x600 mobile (ati sux), 100gb HD (teh internet is for pr0n!) and 1 gig o' RAM.
definitely a nice find for $1250 (at Best Buy, no less)
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Nice, but I wouldn't say Ati sucks. My Mob X700 been able to handle just about any game I've thrown at it at 1280x800, apart from the FEAR demo.
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I have an x300 on my work laptop, which seems to cope with GalCiv2 nicely during lunchtimes.
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I'm wary of opening my case because I'm not sure if it's usual that that voids the warranty.
I wish I knew the answer to that one. Usually opening the case alone doesn't void the warrenty as it's something that has to be done to install new components (and while they aren't covered by warrenty, they also usually don't break it either), but that seems to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. I can tell you that it does not invalidate the warrenty coverage for Dell, Apple, and IBM/Lenovo machines though. Check the fine print.
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Well the text is at http://www.evesham.com/MyEvesham/TermsConditions.asp?e=5E7B7B62-B336-4AB0-96AA-31849717F911
I'm going to check my own documentation though to see if it differs, but it looks the same at first glance.
I might not even open it before I contact them anyway just in case.
(btw I'm on RTB)
EDIT- NO!
Customer undertakes:
1. To carry out routine day-to-day preventative maintenance as may be recommended under the Customer operating instructions supplied with this equipment.
2. To permit no alteration to apparatus or wiring except by Agreement with the Company and work to be carried out in accordance with approved procedures.[[/i][/u]
3. To notify the Company in writing in the event that the Equipment is to be re-located.
4. Responsibility for adequate back-up of its data since its protection or recovery forms no part of the agreement.
5. Responsibility for costs incurred for the safe and insured return of the equipment to Evesham, and subsequent return to the customer. (Collection and return of the equipment can be arranged for a charge by Evesham Technology if required).
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I've just fished a large lump of dust out of the CPU cooler of an Athlon 1900 laptop. The system was BSODing when installing XP and the case was almost hot enough to burn skin.
First thing we checked was the hard disk. One of my housemates had a faulty hard disk in her gaming machine which was overheating and causing all kinds of problems, so we figured this system had the same problem, but it turned out to be the CPU instead. The cooler (a large lump of metal with a blower offset to one side) seemed to be pumping a little air out the bottom, but blowers are supposed to take in air through the fan...
Removed cooler from case and fan from cooler. Couldn't see daylight through the fins. Gingerly stuck a screwdriver into the airguide and came across a thick mass of dust...
There was a 8mm thick layer of dust across the fins. Since the fins were entirely enclosed, we'd never have found this if we hadn't dismantled the fan assembly. Cleaned off the thermal grease, replaced it with Ceramique, and the system's as good as new.
Sounds like you could have the same problem. The air could be backing up against a wall of crap.
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Running high end games on a laptop is normal use. Believe it or not, computers are designed to run programs, which is exactly what games are. If a program is more than a computer can handle, then the computer should run the program like crap, not overheat...
Abnormal use would be using the laptop as a coaster or trying to smash a fly with it or something.
To the TC - Sorry if you mentioned this, but have you tried dropping the res/detail ALL the way down?
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I know a little about what goes in to designing computers, and they ARE NOT made to run all programs equally. There is a degree of general-purposeness to most personal computers, yes, but that doesn't mean they are automatically supposed to be able to run everything you put on them without fault. I've got a dedicated gaming rig, and I've had the thing overheat when running DOS programs that make use of all of the CPU for extended periods of time. Modern processors generate more heat per unit area than an efficient hotplate, and that heat is very difficult to remove.
SuperCoolAl: And that's why smaller laptop brands can be a pain. One could qualify opening the case and looking at/cleaning or perhaps remounting the fan assembly as "routine maintenence" but that's a really gray area. Call tech support and find out what kind of maintenence they are willing to do that will not void the warrenty; they very well may walk you through it over the phone.
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2GHz for a laptop is not the same as 2GHz for a desktop. The CPU throttling is not there simply to save power. It is there because running the machine at full speed continually causes heat problems.
You're right, the manufacturer does know what's in there. In normal use, the machine should be fine. High-end games on a laptop are not 'normal use'.
Well, if they aren't normal use, they aren't all that uncommon either. Were this laptop just meant to browse the web, do accounting work, etc etc there would be no need for the x700 graphics card. The inclusion of that component in particular marks the laptop as being meant to at least be seen as capable of playing the latest games. (My 6600GT is the equivelant of the desktop x700, and can still play something as new as HL2 in 1280x1024 resolution. I'd expect something as new as Oblivion to still be playable, although I haven't it yet.)
If the manufacturer assembled the laptop and found that the components would overheat in testing, all I can say is that it was a ploy to get people to pay extra cash for hardware that is, in practice, worthless - and they got called on it. Short of modelling or engineering work, there isn't anything besides games that would need as money- and heat- costly as the x700.
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I can think of a reason they'd include an X700 in a non-gaming machine.
Marketing.
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my old laptop had a rather easy to get to cooling unit. all i had to do was remove 5 screws to gain access to it and 5 more screws to remove it from the machine. it was an early gaming laptop and the thing wheighed almost 20 lbs. iirc it had a 2.4ghz p4 and a radeon mobility 8000 and i used to play ut2004 on it all the time. even outside in 115 degree weather (i was in phoenix at the time). sounds like they started using cheaper cooling units in order to save some money. the cooling unit it had was a dual fan unit and it was in contact witht the cpu under a coat of thermal grease and the gpu by means of a thermal transferpad.
anyway so long as theres not a waranty void seal over it, and you dont strip the screws, you could probibly take your cooling unit out and they would probibly not notice that you opened it if you took it back. you might want to look up some articles about how to do it on your laptop, if its possible you can probibly bet some other geek has done it before and posted the results on the net. also if its not proprietary, you might be able to aquire a better cooling unit of the same form factor. also if a cleaning is all thats required, it would probibly be best to push the gunk back with compressed air and pull out the dust bunnies through the fan holes with twezers.
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Wow woke up this morning to see all these replies! Erm, thanks :lol: OK:
Descenterace - Could be some kind of build up I suppose, but I'm not sure I can clean it out
GodisanAtheist - OK I'll try that too (mat_dxlevel 70 ;))
Stratcomm - Warranty also says 'Customer undertakes to carry out routine day-to-day preventative maintenance as may be recommended under the Customer operating instructions supplied with this equipment. Now in the guide it says to avoid putting the computer in dusty areas or near sources of heat, and I haven't. The climate here is quite cool at the moment aswell. It also gives instructions for other maintenance such as calibrating the battery, but nothing about opening the case, so I don't think it qualifies as 'day-today' preventative maintenance.
Now my main problem with calling tech support is I'm not the buyer of this laptop, Dad bought it, and I don't live with him. I doubt their going to be willing to deal with his 16-year-old son! So I have to wait till I'm there, but I'm going on Friday and over the weekend, so I should be able to sort all this out then. I'm taking some boxes :) Short of impersonating him in an email (which I doubt he'll agree to!) my hand are tied at the moment. My stepdad (who is quite an experienced techie) also advises against opening the case without their instruction.
If it was just throttling they would probably have a case, at least, but half the time it doesn't throttle, it just powers off!
Evesham are actually quite a major mail-order PC builder over here, this laptop is basically a rebadged MSI chassis that they've put the components in.
WMCoolmon - As a general indicator of game performance, I never go below 25fps (40-50 is typical) in Half-Life 2 at 1280x800, all details high except AA, AF and reflections. CS:S stress test comes out at 79fps. FS2 SCP it's unusual for me to go below 50. So yeah it is quite capable of playing the latest games, if it weren't for this problem.
Descenterace - Why put an X700 in a non-gaming machine for marketing purposes when the only real advantage to having one is gaming? :wtf:
Nuke- The bottom has the serial numbers and nothing else (no warranty void seal). It may be easy to reach the cooler, but I still don't want to risk it.
Thanks for all the advice everyone so far! I'll get back to you all once I've tested games at low details...
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Stratcomm - Warranty also says 'Customer undertakes to carry out routine day-to-day preventative maintenance as may be recommended under the Customer operating instructions supplied with this equipment. Now in the guide it says to avoid putting the computer in dusty areas or near sources of heat, and I haven't. The climate here is quite cool at the moment aswell. It also gives instructions for other maintenance such as calibrating the battery, but nothing about opening the case, so I don't think it qualifies as 'day-today' preventative maintenance.
Now my main problem with calling tech support is I'm not the buyer of this laptop, Dad bought it, and I don't live with him. I doubt their going to be willing to deal with his 16-year-old son! So I have to wait till I'm there, but I'm going on Friday and over the weekend, so I should be able to sort all this out then. I'm taking some boxes :) Short of impersonating him in an email (which I doubt he'll agree to!) my hand are tied at the moment. My stepdad (who is quite an experienced techie) also advises against opening the case without their instruction.
The warrenties I'm familiar with haven't ever been that restrictive, so I can't really help you much beyond that. As for calling tech support, it's not at all unusual for someone your age to call in for their parents, just because your generation is so much more comfortable with the technology than your parent's generation is. The only thing they would give you a hard time over is the contact information, but as long as you can supply them with the name of the person who purchased it and possibly your relation to that person then you should be able to deal with tech support yourself.
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Descenterace - Why put an X700 in a non-gaming machine for marketing purposes when the only real advantage to having one is gaming? :wtf:
Because the average luser doesn't have a clue about graphics cards and honestly believes that 'better is better' regardless of whether it'll actually affect MS Word.
Not only that, Vista is on the way and it requires a decent card. But it won't make full use of the processing power of said card; it just needs the features. So heat won't be an issue in that case.
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Well I'm going to see if I can get over to Dad's tonight, and then I hope they're open, it's a bank holiday tomorrow :mad: But I'm pretty sure they're open on Saturday.
I should have resolution soon, I hope!
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OK time for an update:
I sent it back. On Thursday Dad asked me to call up the techie having a look at it as he wanted to talk with me.
The techie was friendly and competent enough, but basically had a go at me for having the temperature monitoring software (because it's beta, so he uninstalled it) and also for having updated my drivers... but he put all their own 'researched' stuff back on, which is fair enough to me, if any of that affected stability. He also explained how Windows power management works (and set it to Always On even though I already tried that). He said he'd test with 3DMark 03 and 05.
Anyway I've got it back today with their configuration and has it fixed the problem? Not on your nelly! Exactly the same thing happens, the only difference now is general performance has been reduced because I have older drivers!
What amazed me was the guy said he didn't have access to the emails back and forth that had been going on before I sent it back. I don't think he knew exactly what the problem was or what to look out for, he was adamant it was a software fault but it obviously isn't. I have £1000 worth of equipment that is still just about useless.
I think I'm going to have to get back to them.
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*hides my nelly*
And the lesson learned here should be, either buy from a reputable internationally-distributed company, or DIY. I know it sounds difficult, but you CAN build your own laptop, even though it's hella expensive, at least if there are any problems you can tear through the machine to fix it instead of being held back by manufacturer warranty crap. It still sucks that they will not replace your machine though. Honestly, they shoulda taken it back without question, exchanged it for the same thing, THEN went through the machine and fixed it. The customer's happy, and the business can get back the money for the defective parts. (maybe)
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and also for having updated my drivers...
What kind of ****ing retard tells you NOT to update drivers?
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HERECY!
Thou shalt not update original drivers of thy Machine, for those are Chosen for the Best of thy Machine! :lol:
Also, Thou shalt not install any and no alien programs that have no Support from the genuine Goodmaker, thy Grand Savior and Martyr, Microsoft. They shall mess up thy PC.