[SuperCoolAl]

First off, the specs:

This is an Evesham Quest Roma T37, based of MSI's MS-1029 chassis (or Megabook M635)
Ati Xpress 200 chipset
Turion 64 MT-37 (approximately equivalent to a 3700+ Athlon 64)
1024MB DDR333 RAM
128MB Mobility Radeon X700
Windows XP Home Edition
All latest graphics/chipset/CPU drivers

Now, my processor should be theoretically running at it's peak clock rate the whole time when under load, which is 2Ghz. When idle, the processor clocks down to 800Mhz to dissipate heat and save power.

The problem I am experiencing is when under load for extended periods of time, while playing games for example, occasionally the CPU will clock down even when under load for about 5 seconds, then speeds back up. During these 5 seconds the gameplay becomes very laggy due to the much reduced clock rate and is downright unplayable as this happens about twice a minute.

The only way to stop this is to completely uninstall the Powernow drivers and also disable Powernow in the BIOS. However under these conditions after a while playing games the laptop turns itself off, which leads me to believe it is a heat issue. This would explain the clocking down under load to avoid overheating. Research on the internet has also lead me to believe this is true.

Now as this thing is only a few months old and is still under warranty do you think I should return it? Definitely seems like the cooling isn't enough!

Opinions, please.

[StratComm]

Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games.  It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.

[Turey]

cut a hole in it somewhere and put in a bigger fan. problem solved.

[SuperCoolAl]

Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games.  It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.

Odd, this is the first I've heard of a computer not being designed to run at the speed it's meant to borking run at!

cut a hole in it somewhere and put in a bigger fan. problem solved.

I'm quite certain that would void the warranty 

[Turnsky]

Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games.  It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.

Odd, this is the first I've heard of a computer not being designed to run at the speed it's meant to borking run at!

cut a hole in it somewhere and put in a bigger fan. problem solved.

I'm quite certain that would void the warranty 

you'd find that laptops tend to have more heat issues than a compartively geared PC, lack of airflow is usually to blame, just be happy it clocks itself down, instead of having the core melt through the case onto your lap. 

there are cooling units available for notebook PC's, but more often than not, they're quite bulky, albiet sitting underneath your notebook.

a couple examples.
http://www.a1-electronics.net/PcHardware/Various/2004/EverCool_NP-201_Oct.shtml
http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/notebook_cooler.html

[StratComm]

Heat on laptops is a real issue, and quite frankly I've only seen one or two in my time that are supposed to be able to do something like play games.  It sure sounds like it's heat-related, but I seriously doubt that it's defective.

Odd, this is the first I've heard of a computer not being designed to run at the speed it's meant to borking run at!

But you said it's running at it's proper speed most of the time, right?  And this only happens when you play highly processor/memory/disk intensive games, right?  Laptops are designed to run applications like MS Word or Internet Explorer fast.  But these applications are somewhat bursty and very much I/O bound, whereas a game runs full-bore even if the user is doing nothing.  The laptop that's designed to run at 2GHz running XP, word, and explorer may well have trouble running Doom3.  So yes, the thing is insufficiently cooled.  That's hardly suprising.  It may be insufficiently cooled enough to be an inferior laptop, but that doesn't make it defective.  I doubt the warrenty would cover it and I doubt a replacement machine of the same configuration would be any better.  With laptops, it's a matter of portability over speed, and you're trading the ability to get continual 2GHz performance off for the ability to pick it up and take it with you.

[SuperCoolAl]

*scan reading warranty*

Nothing regarding heat/CPU issues in laptops, just the standard mantra about dead pixels.

The only thing that may count is:

Evesham Technology does not give a warranty or guarantee protection for ... c) fitness for any particular purpose not notified to Evesham Technology and agreed in writing at the point of sale or prior to delivery

But that's just too vague. If it came to it I could probably get them over a barrel on the Sale of Goods Act. When I pay for 2Ghz I expect 2Ghz. I wouldn't mind if it was noisier or something if it needed to be to keep it cool, but it's just incapable.

[Turnsky]

*scan reading warranty*

not many notebooks have been touted to run games full tilt, i think alienware have been the only ones to actually market such notebook computers to the masses.

[StratComm]

Dell has an XPS line that's supposed to be for that too, but whether that qualifies as a laptop or not (the things weigh like 40 pounds) is another story entirely.  Usually the marketing folks take out any references to what the laptop can't do though so unless it's actually supposed to be able to run accelerated graphics at full speed continuously then I don't think you'll get very far complaining that it doesn't.  Cooling solutions are probably the better bet.

[SuperCoolAl]

Jeez this is a tricky one legally.

They don't really tout the laptop as anything, which is a problem. It's a list of specs on the site and that's it.

Sale of Goods Act says:

Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

•  Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

•  Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

...continues

I'm liking the look of the 'freedom from minor defects' part, which ties into the whole 'satisfactory quality' bit.

Dell has an XPS line that's supposed to be for that too, but whether that qualifies as a laptop or not (the things weigh like 40 pounds) is another story entirely.  Usually the marketing folks take out any references to what the laptop can't do though so unless it's actually supposed to be able to run accelerated graphics at full speed continuously then I don't think you'll get very far complaining that it doesn't.  Cooling solutions are probably the better bet.

Well, in the end, what is any computer 'supposed' to do? I'm pretty sure its not 'supposed' to overheat within a minute of starting a game.

[StratComm]

Computers aren't designed to run games, they are designed to compute.  What most people use a computer - and particularly a laptop - for doesn't involve running the processor under load for an extended period of time.  They run programs that need speed for responsiveness but most of the time sit idle.  Word.  Excel.  Media Player.  IE.  Computers that are "supposed" to play games are designed to not only run faster, but to run faster under a more full load.

That's what Turnsky and I are trying to point out, it's not a defect.  The manufacturer likely knows it has heat issues - after all the processor knows to throttle down under high-temperature operations.  And if they didn't list purpose or describe it's capabilities in any extensive way that this behavior deviates from, you're probably not going to get very far with the warrenty.

[Turnsky]

Jeez this is a tricky one legally.

They don't really tout the laptop as anything, which is a problem. It's a list of specs on the site and that's it.

Sale of Goods Act says:

Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

•  Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

•  Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

...continues

I'm liking the look of the 'freedom from minor defects' part, which ties into the whole 'satisfactory quality' bit.

Dell has an XPS line that's supposed to be for that too, but whether that qualifies as a laptop or not (the things weigh like 40 pounds) is another story entirely.  Usually the marketing folks take out any references to what the laptop can't do though so unless it's actually supposed to be able to run accelerated graphics at full speed continuously then I don't think you'll get very far complaining that it doesn't.  Cooling solutions are probably the better bet.

Well, in the end, what is any computer 'supposed' to do? I'm pretty sure its not 'supposed' to overheat within a minute of starting a game.

best i can do is give you some advice if you do decide to return it. if the store won't return/exchange it, go over their heads, and call the manufacturer, much easier to deal with, unless they're like kodak australia and has a vietnamese tech support staff, most are generally helpful.

but as stratcomm said, you may not get far with the warrenty, the best bet would be calling the manufacturer over the store you bought it in any case.  if it were a couple of days old, i'd claim DOA on it.

[SuperCoolAl]

I've done a little digging deeper- on AMD's website I quote

AMD Turion™ 64 Mobile Technology
Enjoy mobile performance that gives you the freedom to work, relax, and play almost anytime or anywhere.

On Ati's website:

Mobility™ Radeon® X700 - The Performance Leader Designed for True Mobility
Advanced 3D Architecture for Amazing Performance and True Mobility
Mobility™ Radeon® X700 brings a new age of graphics technology and power management to mobile PC users seeking both breathtaking performance and true mobility. With 8 parallel pixel pipelines and breakthrough image enhancement technology, Mobility™ Radeon® X700 provides an extremely smooth, responsive HD gaming experience, putting gamers in control of the most demanding game titles. A radically new architecture based on the latest .11 micron manufacturing process delivers fast mobile performance without sacrificing battery life. GDDR3 memory support helps to deliver ultra-fast data rates and unbelievable acceleration.

The parts manufacturers at least seem to think I should be able to play

By the way, this thermal throttling is on every AMD CPU, Opteron, Athlon 64 or Turion 64 (and probably some Intel ones). It doesn't mean it's meant to come into play.

[StratComm]

Yeah, I was going to comment on that being a very high-end GPU for a laptop that's not supposed to do games.  However, in this case it's not a matter of the laptop parts being game friendly, it's a matter of the whole assembly being capable.  Clearly the parts will run for a few seconds under full load, so the parts aren't the problem.  The problem is heatsinking and airflow, which you just won't be able to change in a laptop chassis.

I hope you get somewhere in taking it back, I really do.  I just want to warn you that the manufacturer isn't required to supply a replacement for something that isn't broken as far as the system's intended uses are concerned.

[Turnsky]

Yeah, I was going to comment on that being a very high-end GPU for a laptop that's not supposed to do games.  However, in this case it's not a matter of the laptop parts being game friendly, it's a matter of the whole assembly being capable.  Clearly the parts will run for a few seconds under full load, so the parts aren't the problem.  The problem is heatsinking and airflow, which you just won't be able to change in a laptop chassis.

I hope you get somewhere in taking it back, I really do.  I just want to warn you that the manufacturer isn't required to supply a replacement for something that isn't broken as far as the system's intended uses are concerned.

indeed, under the circumstances of normal operation, you'd experience very little heat issues.
 in a gaming situation, however, you'd find that your entire system is working at almost full load, and producing a lot of heat to boot. it ain't broken, just keeping itself from destroying itself in the heat. i'm sure the parts perform rather well separtely, but who you want to talk to is the schmuck who put the whole shebang together.

[SuperCoolAl]

Yeah well I'll fire off an email or phone the 'shmuck' this week and see how I go.

I didn't mind you two playing (or not!) Devil's Advocate there, helped me think about this in different ways. What's the Internet for, ey

If it isn't covered I'll just say to hell with it and undervolt the CPU and see if that helps.

[Turey]

i still say cut a hole in it.

Sidecutters rank up there with duct tape, WD40, lighter fluid, and shotguns in sheer STUDDLYNESS

[Turnsky]

i still say cut a hole in it.

Sidecutters rank up there with duct tape, WD40, lighter fluid, and shotguns in sheer STUDDLYNESS

he wants to keep his warrenty intact. if it was just outta warrenty, i'd say go for it, but since it isn't, i'd say no. 

[CP5670]

I have a similar problem on my old Dell laptop. It throttles down to 1/3 speed after about three minutes in any 3D accelerated game and stays at that speed until I restart it, and there is no way to disable the clock throttling in Dell's sad excuse for a BIOS. Recently I've been finding that it even throttles down in Mathematica and Matlab if I make it do something for more than about 40 seconds. It's a complete POS. If it hadn't been a prize for a competition, I would have just returned it immediately when I found out about this.

You could try getting a replacement, but it will most likely have the same problem. As Stratcomm noted, this seems to be a common thing on many laptops except for the heavy desktop replacement models. If you are only playing older games on it, you may be able to get away with running it on the lowest speed setting at all times.

[WMCoolmon]

Yeah, I was going to comment on that being a very high-end GPU for a laptop that's not supposed to do games.  However, in this case it's not a matter of the laptop parts being game friendly, it's a matter of the whole assembly being capable.  Clearly the parts will run for a few seconds under full load, so the parts aren't the problem.  The problem is heatsinking and airflow, which you just won't be able to change in a laptop chassis.

I hope you get somewhere in taking it back, I really do.  I just want to warn you that the manufacturer isn't required to supply a replacement for something that isn't broken as far as the system's intended uses are concerned.

I disagree. I think that if I buy a laptop and it can't run at the speed advertised, without overheating, it is perfectly game to take it back. It's like buying a car that's advertised at being able to reach 100 mph on normal roads, but can only run above 40, without overheating after a few minutes. Now, sure, you can never use the freeway, but it's really an issue with the statistics being advertised incorrectly.

Considering the thing has an x700 in it, which is really only useful if you're playing games, I'd say he's perfectly within his rights to demand a refund if it can't make full use of those components without overheating. (Within normal operating conditions, obviously - which should be in the manual somewhere) It could even actually be an assembly issue - possibly the CPU heatsink isn't fully on.