Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Arts & Talents => Topic started by: Thor on October 22, 2006, 01:51:05 am
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As a site that concerns it self with starships, there's not much of a consolidated source in the theories of designing ships. even weirder is the lack of non-specific starship designs websites out there.
So. I have a starship to design, but for the benefit for all, what are things to consider, what drives your designs, what do you do to make something a unique ship?
this is not solely for FS, so any thoughts will be appreciated
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Great question!
I used to design a lot of ships when I was a young teenager, after a while I did try and apply some design theory to it (even though it was all fictional).
1. What is the ship for? As much as we'd love it.. freighters do not have huge lasers bolted onto them. They're traditionally slow, ponderous but have vast cargo space and have a bit of a rugged feel to them. Someones private shuttle or transport (like Queen Naboos ship in Ep1) are stylish, fast, totally unarmed but certainly look expensive and no doubt have some decent shields for protection. AWACs or sensor vessels will have large exposed sensor equipment (as having it all hidden in the hull is boring - gotta love sci-fi).
Establish what the ship is for and you've made a good start already.
2. Another tradition is to do everything the way it already is in the real world. Engines go at the back or sides, the bridge/cockpit goes at the front and depending on the size the weapons are mounted on the top/bottom/sides/front). Sometimes simply breaking these conventions can make a vessel more interesting. Put the engines at the front (though off to the sides - assuming they're not pushing the ship backwards)... or put the bridge at the back or in some blister that leads off from the main body.
3. Are there any inherent laws from the universe that ship comes from? If it's a Federation Star Trek ship then the saucer + nacelles thing is damn near essential. TIE Fighters have solar panels and a little round cockpit body - though the arrangement of these is quite dynamic these days. Terran ships of FreeSpace are usually large and bulky with a universal beam coverage.
Those are the sort of pointers I run on. Then there are questions of capabilities such as how large the engines are etc. - you don't want huge starship engines on a fighter so that immediately dictates one design choice.
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4) Who is the ship for? As well as each different race having a unique design, that design ethos must be kept up to some degree throughout the fleet, panel shapes etc all have a massive impact on the final 'look' of the ship.
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these are great tips guys, thank you.
Anyone else? :p
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Plan it's strengths and weakneses ahead.
Pay attention to fire coverage and what weapon you plan to mount on which turret (a BGreen coming out of a little laset turrets jsut seems so ..wrong)
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I base most of my designs on what Legos I have. I am not kidding, I've designed most of my best ships with Legos.
That said, form follows function should take precidence, but when I design, I modify the function so the form can work (I designed a ships with giant claws, so I had to figure out how to make the claws viable). Thoughts about fire coverage need to be brought up too. What kind of weapons are we dealing with? Do you need turrets? Should they be computer controlled or manual (I go manual most often)? What kind of drive system, etc, etc?
But really, the big thing is what is the ship for? Not it's mission, but what, in a given universe, is the ship supposed to do? An unbreakable warship could look a lot like a wall with guns. The underdog should be fast and slender, the ship with the biggest gun should be designed to focus on the biggest gun. What's the story? That's the important question, everything else is secondary.
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And following on from that, avoid Uber-ships, they might seem great at first as they eat their way through enemy after enemy, but it soon actually gets pretty boring. Remember that, if for nothing else than gameplaying purposes, ships either tend to be average at everything or strong at one at the cost of increased weakness at another. A Pegasus with multiple helios would be awesome in real life, but not so good for a game unless used very carefully indeed.
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Pay attention to fire coverage and what weapon you plan to mount on which turret (a BGreen coming out of a little laset turrets just seems so ..wrong)
I tend to do this, but only if the ship involved is a specific "hero" ship (fighters usually remain a no-no).
:lol:
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So the SS Uber-Awesome A$$ Kicker is out then...
j/k...I'll post the UES Spartan when she's done. Its for my own epic sci-fi stuff. Its a destroyer class ship that draws from historicaly inspired design shapes...
These are great....how about getting inspired? what do you use to come up with the shapes, other then the aforementioned lego?
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Some people draw doodles of the ship they want to make, though a lot of my ships use the 'Michelangelo' technique, which basically means you create a central 'core' of the ship and let the shape of it grow around that (Michelangelo always used to say that his sculptures were always in the rock, he just removed the bits that weren't needed). This has the disadvantage that 'modellers block' can set in quite quickly, often designing it first on paper or with lego may seem long-winded, but more often results in a finished model.
All sorts of things are inspiration, often simply thinking about what sort of image you want the ship to portray, for example, a 'GTVI Elite Strike Cruiser; suggests to me a lightly armoured, sleek ship with good hitting power, it'd probably be pretty dark in colour, quite manouverable and probably have at least one prototype/non-issue anti-cap weapon on board. I bet you're already getting an image in your head about what such a ship would actually look like, and it'll be a different image for every person ;)
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Take inspiration from natural sources, too. After a while it gets hard to make box-combinations and still be interested. This (http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/media/gtvf_hestia.jpg) was inspired by a mixture of a dolphin, a dragon, and a dropship from that Final Fantasy movie. I've also done Vasudan, etc, ships inspired by things like plants or (cliched for Shivans) insects. sometimes it's very easy to find truly alien looking stuff in nature.
I always concept (http://www.sectorgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2468) stuff; even if you can't draw (like me :) ), it helps to capture specific parts or 'feelings' you want to convey in a design. sometimes you want to just have a straight blueprint - sometimes you want to snag an 'idea' and confine it to paper.
and don't be afraid to rip stuff off; but IMO it's better to draw inspiration rather than flat out copy. Both this (http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/media/gtf_claymore.jpg) and this (http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/twentyk/art/gtfleto.jpg) were mainly inspired by the Viper Mk.VII (with a mix of other inspirations, some more obvious than others), but rather than do a copy I just used the basic 'principles'; long nose, central guns, 'barrel' body, and soforth.
I'd also always think of trying to concept things on a functional level, at least if they're meant to be human. I've made mistakes before with ships that need a little, um, 'mental flexibility' in certain areas of design. from the size of things like fighterbay 'connectors' to the scale of windows (the latter is of course really hard). One thing that I find helps for alien designs, though, is to envisage how the player will see them; for an enemy fighter, for example, consider the pattern of engine flares on the back and the top silhouette, as that's likely how the player will be recognising that ship. Similarly, try and play on emotions for certain designs. Make big ships intricate to enhance scale; a hexagon looks less visually striking than a ship bristiling with control towers, turret platforms, etc. Fast ships look sleek and perhaps have exaggerated engine size. Civvie ships can look old, chunky, slow - and vulnerable.
And, of course, make it look cool :D
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Crap, just about all of my fighters are designed in such a way that they generate rather big engine flares... (usually several small engines close to each other to make one big flare, I have yet to draw a ship that has engines in different locations ala SJ Sathanas or SODn Solaris...)
And those same fighters tend to be overgunned and big and long. :lol: Dunno if I still have an old sketch I can post up... :nervous: Kinda honed myself on fighters, very rarely do I draw a capship. Never drawn a cruiser or a corvette before (bad bad bad habit of not knowing when to stop while drawing :lol:)
I can draw, but I can't model/texture/map/blablabla. XD
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I just take inspiration from other designs although my ideal uniformed Fleet is WC3/4 cond from Wing commander. Some starlancer caps are cool...........
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I never actually played WC or Elite or any of those old games. Not even Freelancer. I did play Tachyon [Bora campaign only, (TOOOOT) Galspan] and Starlancer [stuck at mission 21] though. :lol:, Tachyon and Starlancer were rivals in the same genre back then).
Come to think of it, I don't remember what was the first game I ever played involving combat spacecraft. I'd like to say FS1 or Descent 2, but...
:doubt:
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You KNOW it was either starwing or x-wing :)
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Uhh no. The only Star Wars game I've played was Dark Forces II. Since then I've been somewhat anti-Star Wars.
Reason? Don't know it myself, :lol:.
:blah: :)
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i've always liked to design my ships to be either slightly, or completely non symmetrical
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I would make more non-symmetrical but they take longer to UV map because I tend to UV map on an almost poly-poly basis where possible, which can be slow and painstaking on occasion, but worth the effort :)
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Make more fighters with the pilot sealed off from the outside. And capships with the bridges NOT on the outside.
And more DNIs. (This may not require external changes, but it could influence it.)
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that is a good concept, makes sense in space to protect you Command Centre.
stupid question of the moment...whats DNI?
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Direct Neural Interface. I'm pretty sure you don't learn about those in high school. :P
Next best would be a SQUID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQUID). Would likely require much more training (So as not to accidentally shoot Alpha 1, thus ending your existence.) then a DNI, and the feedback would still be external to the body... But it's something.
Oh, and the SQUID thing would require either any ship the pilot flies be dedicated to that one pilot or that there be an interfacey thingy/data thinger that the pilot emself lugs about.
SQUIDs are prolly easier to use in things like power armour. Or Gundams vaguely shaped like humans...
Aaah, fun stuff.
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nor in film school...at least not at school at any rate....what can i say, acronyms are plentiful these days :blah:
nope real learning is done outside of school....such as here. squids sound intriguing.
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My ships are always purely aesthetic. The technology behind them is simply fluff.
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Especially any Killer Rabbit ships...
Usually mine are designed around some aesthetic concept, and then I BS stuff around/in it. The last mesh I made had the ideas "Cockpit sealed from outside environ" and "Lance cannons" on it. It's somewhere in the FS mod thread...
Other times, a ship is just aesthetic.
DNIs are also something theoretically implementable regardless of design.
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My Beanie logic+ Beany Physics dictate that anything i want to be ina mod.............is :nod: :p
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On the subject, surely I'm not the only person who thinks the BSG-style 'ribbing' is one of the Bestest Things Ever? I've already ripped it off (http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/media/gtd_carrier.jpg) once and intend to do so (in a more controlled manner) again. :D
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You are.
It's not that I don't find it visually interesting, it just doesn't seem correct for the setting I want to reproduce.
I start by writing out a short (or not-so-short) description, simply because that's what I do best. Consider it verbal concept art, if you will. Normally I don't include much in the way of physical detail but rather mission and capablities stuff.
EDIT: Other general observations: I tend to prefer "rational design" over "looks cool" except in cases of naval tradition (every capital craft I've ever touched the modeling of has a small conning tower/bridge structure). I also tend to end up trying to supplement rather than replace the existing ships. I don't think I've made a single new fighter, because we have one for just about every concieveable combat role; but there are a lot of transports (of the assault transport variety; things design to lift and supply large mechanized ground forces) floating about the hard drive of the old computer, some cruisers and corvettes as well. (Need to transfer stuff...)
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Chris Roberts all the way !!!
B5 ships are UGLY, only the Thunderbolt and Narn heavy cruiser are nice enough to grace my HD....
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Awww, I like a lot of the B5 ships. Especially the Starfuries.
And that one saucer thing, though that might be because it just sprays plasmaboogers with reckless abandon.
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I'm trying to design a spaceship out of a helmet...
tis as hard as it sounds
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Usually all my ships are symmetrical.
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I'm trying to design a spaceship out of a helmet...
tis as hard as it sounds
Painnful too i imagine, (only brits will laugh)
What sort of Helmet, Armoured w*nkball, Hockey, Polo, or US Army?
I'm intrigued here :D
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(http://www.spartantom.com/content_files/leftspartan.jpg)
this kind of helmet
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A spartan'ish helmet...........OK what class of ship?
I'm guessing frieghter :nervous:
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nope, she be a big ole warship.
I'll post a pic when she's farther along...did i mention I'm just learning maya now? hahaha... :blah:
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You're a braver man than me, Off the cuff i gotta say Steak and Scoob most impress me with their designs and Artistic type stuff, That might just be down to my taste though :)
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i think it'd be more accurate to say I'm a stupider man then you....
:p
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No arguments here, (before anyone pipes in ;7)
Go with it, Theories of starship design apply to inspiration, so if a helmet inspired ya. It can work....... :nervous:
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I find that I'm inspired by pens. This leads to a long, thin, graceful looking ship. The clip becomes a hooked-out bridge or launch bay, and there's a mother of a death ray mounted down the spine.
Generally, I think that the degree of aesthetics present in a ship should be proportional to the technology. Advanced ships look like glass skyscrapers or organic forms, whereas less advanced appear boxier and metallic, with a good amount of greebles.
However, I find it's most interesting when you "get dirty" and design a ship from a practical level. What is the ships function, and how should I design it so it accomplish it effectively and efficiently? Who are the inhabitants, and what are their jobs, how do they move about inside. A fighter just needs a cockpit and means of egress (unless there isn't a pilot, or the pilot is permanently integrated into the ship). How autonomous is the ship? If it's intended for long voyages, it needs berths, a rec/common/kitchen area of some sort (depending on the inhabitants).
With large ships, things become increasingly architectural. You probably need internal corridors, levels and/or compartments, and possibly lifts. You'll probablly want a nifty bridge, this should be centrally located. Does your ship have "magic" artificial gravity? If not, and if the inhabitants aren't specially adapted to zero-gee ala Shivans, large rotating sections are almost a must. These are tricky to implement structurally.
That's not to mention the mechanical aspects. What is the ships power source? Cold fusion? Antimatter? Black holes? Does it need fuel? Does it need fuel tanks? A ships power generator and propulsion unit aren't necessarily the same thing. They may not be related at all, or in different areas of the ship. Strictly speaking, if a ship has an engine exhaust, then material must necessarily get ejected, and the ship must necessarily need fuel of some form. This is probably one of the most violated rules in sci-fi: unless you make up some very exotic technology, you can't have a ship that can function and expend unlimited amounts of electric, kinetic, nuclear energy indefinitely, without requiring input of some form.
:hopping:
That may seem very restrictive, but introducing problems leads to more opportunities for creative solutions.
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I'll be hoonest i look to real life ships in my designs, the good old HMS Belfast and the new D-Type like the Duncan too.
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I wanna make some stuff ala Xenosaga. That big red ship... wheeeeeeeee.
Actually, I did. I have a mesh... And... Well. Maybe. I might have lost it in that HD crash I keep on going on about in places other than here.
It looked pretty, though. I think. Though low poly.
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Xenosaga Hmmm.?
That could be quite nifty.
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This depends on the feel you want to convey. If you want to do the whole naval battle feel, then a warship with beams along its sides that trades broadsides with other ships makes sense.
If you want to be futuristic, then do more shivan things, like putting beams at the front...more utilitarian..
this all depends on the feel and the type of ship.