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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2006, 02:01:45 pm

Title: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2006, 02:01:45 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6176209.stm

Quote
Circumcision can cut the rate of HIV infection in heterosexual men by 50%, results from two African trials show.  The findings are so striking, the US National Institutes of Health decided it would be unethical to continue and stopped the trials early.  It supports a previous South African study which reported similar results.  Experts said it was a significant breakthrough but could not replace standard methods of preventing infection such as condoms.

The two trials of around 8,000 men took place in Uganda and Kenya were due to finish in July and September 2007 respectively.  But after an interim review of the data by the NIH Data and Safety Monitoring Board decided to halt the trials as it was unethical not to offer circumcision in the men who were acting as controls.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Taristin on December 13, 2006, 02:16:52 pm
:wtf:
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Flipside on December 13, 2006, 02:22:20 pm
I'm almost afraid to ask how they tested this...
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Taristin on December 13, 2006, 02:36:38 pm
Probably why it's so unethical. "Ok, all you men, sleep with this HIV infested whore..."
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Bobboau on December 13, 2006, 03:33:49 pm
wow kaz is gona be pissed if he can't comment on this!
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Fragrag on December 13, 2006, 03:39:19 pm

Quote
Circumcision can cut the rate of HIV infection in heterosexual men by 50%, results from two African trials show. 

Woohoo! I'm 50% safer!
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 13, 2006, 03:49:17 pm
wow kaz is gona be pissed if he can't comment on this!

Well, I can definitely see him jumping in and screaming "flawed test" or the like.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Blue Lion on December 13, 2006, 04:07:44 pm
Well now I know if I ever go to Africa....
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Ulala on December 13, 2006, 04:10:20 pm
Um.. yay?
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Maxwell on December 13, 2006, 05:44:22 pm
I've been told that circumcision helps to prevent other infections, but how are they so sure its not just because of a change in lifestyle?

Leading cause of infection from any disease is ignorance of the thing spreads.   Africa does not seem like a place where many people get extensive medical care.  Wouldn't a circumcised male child already be on a better path than one thats never seen a doctor?
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Sandwich on December 13, 2006, 07:32:20 pm
In reading the article here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1971635,00.html), I couldn't help but laugh out loud at the terminology and phrasings used... check out the parts I've emphasized:

Quote
Circumcision can halve the risk of a man picking up the HIV infection which leads to Aids, scientists in the United States said last night. Two major trials, in Kenya and Uganda, have confirmed what doctors and campaigners have suspected and hoped for several years. The results have major implications for the fight against the Aids pandemic raging in Africa and Asia.

Yesterday Kevin de Cock, head of the World Health Organisation's HIV/Aids department, said it could cut the numbers of infected men by "many tens of thousands, many hundreds of thousands and maybe millions over coming years".

The two trials should have gone on into next year but were called to an abrupt halt yesterday by the funder, the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, after an interim review of the data showed a halving of the risk of infection among those circumcised. Now that the point is proven to the satisfaction of scientists it would be unethical to continue. All the uncircumcised participants will now be offered the medical procedure.

Sorry, but: :wakka:
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Nix on December 13, 2006, 08:40:30 pm
and thus...  don't believe everything you read.   :p
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: achtung on December 13, 2006, 10:06:46 pm
Maybe it's just the fact that those circumcised knew what AIDS was and how it spread/got better medical care?  Fifty percent sounds a bit high.....
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Turey on December 13, 2006, 10:25:23 pm
Maybe it's just the fact that those circumcised knew what AIDS was and how it spread/got better medical care?  Fifty percent sounds a bit high.....

Someone has to take Kazan's POV:

Quote from: Kazan's POV
Or maybe the circumcised men weren't as attractive as the uncircumcised men, and so had fewer chances to acquire AIDS

and from the guy sitting next to me in class today:
Quote from: The Guy
It'd be like Survivor: AIDS! The winner is the one whose strain is most prominent!
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Nuke on December 13, 2006, 11:11:41 pm
this would make kazan explode. and not in a good way :D

if you dont want aids dont put your pecker where it doesnt belong, like in a whore. that simple. if youre with a girl and she wants to **** on the first date, its not a good sign of things to come. most men just go "oh yea im gettin laid" but one must consider that she may have givin the same offer to all the guys shes ever met. not quite the place i wanna go. this is like cutting off your leg so you dont get a spranged ankle. common sense is the best weapon against aids.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Mongoose on December 14, 2006, 01:07:29 am
I still can't get over the fact that the head of the WHO's HIV/AIDS group is named Kevin de Cock.  D'you think he did something to earn that position, or did his higher-ups stick him there just for the sight gag? :lol:
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Quest_techie on December 14, 2006, 02:37:56 am
I still can't get over the fact that the head of the WHO's HIV/AIDS group is named Kevin de Cock.  D'you think he did something to earn that position, or did his higher-ups stick him there just for the sight gag? :lol:


thank you so much for beating me to that

this study effing had to be flawed, there is no way within the nuremburg code to pull this off


edit: accuratly
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2006, 03:14:38 am
I've been told that circumcision helps to prevent other infections, but how are they so sure its not just because of a change in lifestyle?

Leading cause of infection from any disease is ignorance of the thing spreads.   Africa does not seem like a place where many people get extensive medical care.  Wouldn't a circumcised male child already be on a better path than one thats never seen a doctor?

You're assuming that it's normally a doctor who does the circumcising......
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Windrunner on December 14, 2006, 03:28:17 am
In reading the article here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1971635,00.html), I couldn't help but laugh out loud at the terminology and phrasings used... check out the parts I've emphasized:

Quote
Circumcision can halve the risk of a man picking up the HIV infection which leads to Aids, scientists in the United States said last night. Two major trials, in Kenya and Uganda, have confirmed what doctors and campaigners have suspected and hoped for several years. The results have major implications for the fight against the Aids pandemic raging in Africa and Asia.

Yesterday Kevin de Cock, head of the World Health Organisation's HIV/Aids department, said it could cut the numbers of infected men by "many tens of thousands, many hundreds of thousands and maybe millions over coming years".

The two trials should have gone on into next year but were called to an abrupt halt yesterday by the funder, the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, after an interim review of the data showed a halving of the risk of infection among those circumcised. Now that the point is proven to the satisfaction of scientists it would be unethical to continue. All the uncircumcised participants will now be offered the medical procedure.

Sorry, but: :wakka:

aren't you Circumcised mike? :nervous: i mean thats is a part of jewish religion right?
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2006, 03:30:21 am
In reading the article here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1971635,00.html), I couldn't help but laugh out loud at the terminology and phrasings used... check out the parts I've emphasized:

Quote
Circumcision can halve the risk of a man picking up the HIV infection which leads to Aids, scientists in the United States said last night. Two major trials, in Kenya and Uganda, have confirmed what doctors and campaigners have suspected and hoped for several years. The results have major implications for the fight against the Aids pandemic raging in Africa and Asia.

Yesterday Kevin de Cock, head of the World Health Organisation's HIV/Aids department, said it could cut the numbers of infected men by "many tens of thousands, many hundreds of thousands and maybe millions over coming years".

The two trials should have gone on into next year but were called to an abrupt halt yesterday by the funder, the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, after an interim review of the data showed a halving of the risk of infection among those circumcised. Now that the point is proven to the satisfaction of scientists it would be unethical to continue. All the uncircumcised participants will now be offered the medical procedure.

Sorry, but: :wakka:

aren't you Circumcised mike? :nervous: i mean thats is a part of jewish religion right?

I think Sarny is actually orthodox christian or somesuch.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Wobble73 on December 14, 2006, 04:19:13 am
No he's a Messianic Jew, that means that he is a jew that believed Jesus was the messiah, Orhodox Jews are still waiting for the messiah to come!
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2006, 06:05:06 am
No he's a Messianic Jew, that means that he is a jew that believed Jesus was the messiah, Orhodox Jews are still waiting for the messiah to come!

Fair enough, except I didn't say Orthodox Jew.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 14, 2006, 06:11:07 am
Someone has to take Kazan's POV:

Quote from: Kazan's POV
Or maybe the circumcised men weren't as attractive as the uncircumcised men, and so had fewer chances to acquire AIDS

No, Kaz would be more like:

Quote
theres no ethical way to test this

--insert generic latin phrase only partially relevant to the conversation--

--bad translation typically meaning "i win by default" or "the theofacist bush government sucks because they like chopping off willies and lying to say that it's good to force radical religious ideas on me"--

--because the us health institute is funding this, it must be flawed--

it's a bad study---there's _NO_ way to test this outside of legal code
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Wobble73 on December 14, 2006, 06:13:14 am
No he's a Messianic Jew, that means that he is a jew that believed Jesus was the messiah, Orhodox Jews are still waiting for the messiah to come!

Fair enough, except I didn't say Orthodox Jew.

I didn't say you did, I was just trying to explain the difference between messianic jews and orthodox jews
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2006, 06:17:12 am
No, Kaz would be more like:

Just cause Kazan is monkeyed doesn't mean you get to make fun of him. In fact it makes it much more cowardly than when you did it before he was monkeyed as you know damn well he can't reply to you.

I'd advise you to stop unless you fancy your own simian avatar.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Ace on December 14, 2006, 06:20:19 am
We all know that they only assault Kazan due to insecurity over their own mutilated genitals ;)
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2006, 06:24:49 am
Either way they need to stop cause I keep being tempted to tell them to cut it out and we don't want to start down that path. :)
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: vyper on December 14, 2006, 08:08:09 am

Quote
Circumcision can cut the rate of HIV infection in heterosexual men by 50%, results from two African trials show. 

Woohoo! I'm 50% safer!

Woohoo! It's easier for me to have a wank, so get it up ye! :p
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Mefustae on December 14, 2006, 08:12:00 am
And the award for the most tasteless post goes to... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: vyper on December 14, 2006, 08:19:06 am
And the award for the most tasteless post goes to... :rolleyes:

As opposed to post after post of how Kaz would react were he here? ;)
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: IPAndrews on December 14, 2006, 08:22:04 am
Cutting off someone's todger completely probably reduces HIV risk even further.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Mefustae on December 14, 2006, 09:00:18 am
Cutting off someone's todger completely probably reduces HIV risk even further.
That's not a bad idea, actually. It would end the threat of HIV in Africa, and solve any hunger woes they're having as well.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2006, 09:47:40 am
That's not a bad idea, actually. It would end the threat of HIV in Africa, and solve any hunger woes they're having as well.

Surely the person who had to cook all those penises would end up with massive psychological trauma?

Although I know a few feminists who would probably be willing to give it a go. :p
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2006, 10:15:53 am
That's not a bad idea, actually. It would end the threat of HIV in Africa, and solve any hunger woes they're having as well.

Surely the person who had to cook all those penises would end up with massive psychological trauma?

Although I know a few feminists who would probably be willing to give it a go. :p

I figured he was just referring to the sudden population drop that would result in penis-less population......... one penis would only be, what, a chipolata on average, anyways?
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2006, 10:59:11 am
I know but it's much more fun to deliberately misunderstand him. :D
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2006, 11:04:41 am
I know but it's much more fun to deliberately misunderstand him. :D

Aye right, sunshine.  We aw ken yi've goat fried willy oan the brain, noo......
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 14, 2006, 11:07:34 am
I feel like your accent would make that even funnier.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2006, 11:18:47 am
I feel like your accent would make that even funnier.

Well, it's a phrase I normally only use ordering at McDonalds.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: vyper on December 14, 2006, 12:45:45 pm
As opposed to "haw, bawbag, geez some chips!"
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 14, 2006, 01:51:09 pm
As opposed to "haw, bawbag, geez some chips!"

I'm not that polite.......
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Fragrag on December 14, 2006, 02:03:09 pm

Quote
Circumcision can cut the rate of HIV infection in heterosexual men by 50%, results from two African trials show. 

Woohoo! I'm 50% safer!

Woohoo! It's easier for me to have a wank, so get it up ye! :p

Well, you'll only be getting wanks  :p
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: vyper on December 14, 2006, 02:28:55 pm

Quote
Circumcision can cut the rate of HIV infection in heterosexual men by 50%, results from two African trials show. 

Woohoo! I'm 50% safer!

Woohoo! It's easier for me to have a wank, so get it up ye! :p

Well, you'll only be getting wanks  :p

I stand by my record. Mainly because I can't stand behind it... BADOOM TSH!
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2006, 03:57:37 pm
Aye right, sunshine.  We aw ken yi've goat fried willy oan the brain, noo......

Goat fried willy on brain?

And I thought haggis was the most disgusting thing you scots liked to eat!
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Sandwich on December 14, 2006, 05:31:05 pm
aren't you Circumcised mike? :nervous: i mean thats is a part of jewish religion right?

Yeah, I am. Perfectly happy as such, too. :)
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Turey on December 14, 2006, 05:42:19 pm
Just cause Kazan is monkeyed doesn't mean you get to make fun of him. In fact it makes it much more cowardly than when you did it before he was monkeyed as you know damn well he can't reply to you.

I'd advise you to stop unless you fancy your own simian avatar.

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I wasn't trying to make fun of Kazan, or insult him in any way. I was merely responding to another post, and realized that my complaints (about the possible uncontrolled variables in this study) would fit nicely into what I've seen of Kazan's mindset.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: karajorma on December 14, 2006, 05:56:27 pm
I know. It wasn't aimed at you.
Title: Re: Circumcision 'cuts' HIV infection ?
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 14, 2006, 05:57:23 pm
Just cause Kazan is monkeyed doesn't mean you get to make fun of him. In fact it makes it much more cowardly than when you did it before he was monkeyed as you know damn well he can't reply to you.

I'd advise you to stop unless you fancy your own simian avatar.

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I wasn't trying to make fun of Kazan, or insult him in any way. I was merely responding to another post, and realized that my complaints (about the possible uncontrolled variables in this study) would fit nicely into what I've seen of Kazan's mindset.

No, it was definitely aimed at me.  On the topic, I don't really give a damn anymore what Kazan thinks of my opinions.  Bear in mind, I have enormous respect for him, as he knows his stuff when it comes to debating politics and he always makes it fun to do so.  Still, he tends to mouth off at people behind their backs (read: Liberator), and I wasn't particularly doing it in a hostile spirit as he tends to.  But whatever, I got slapped for it, it won't happen again. :blah: