Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Agentbolt on January 25, 2007, 01:26:18 am
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After ~50 hours of Freespacin' with a mouse/keyboard combo, I finally picked up a halfways decent joystick. I must be REALLY out of practice because I can aim for crap with this thing. I need inspiring, uplifting anecdotes from people telling me how awesome the joystick is to control your ship once you get the hang of it.
P.S. I know there's already a thread on this but I got an angry red message on top saying no one had posted to it for 30 days and maybe I should just make a new one :nervous:
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/me is also very good with mouse/kb, but sucks with joystick.
Some people are better with one or the other. If you find one you're good at, stick with it.
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Keyboard and mouse ftw. Joysticking gives a more visceral experience, but you're aim is just always going to be that much better with the mouse.
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I've got a decent joystick but I'm complete crap with it! I just don't know why. I feel that it's not precise, especially diagonal directions.
=> I strongly advise you to use Nuke's mouse control. Basically it acts as a joystick (i.e., u don't need to keep moving the mouse).
I'm reaaaally better with it. To give u a figure, I achieved something like 30% of primary accuracy with the joystick. With the mouse I have 65% and more! On top of that, Nuke's mouse control gives u total freedom for your other hand (no silly joke intended :rolleyes:).
ps: I've not been paid by Nuke to advertise his mouse code! :lol:
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I just use a keyboard, no mouse. :nervous:
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Old school way! What's your primary accuracy ?
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No idea... enough to get past most missions in hard at least.
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You can see it when you finish a mission, under the statistics tab, 2 pages away to reach the overall statistics.
I was just curious, it'd be funny if you were more precise than people who use joysticks or mice... :lol:
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I've just run a portion of the gauntlet and got around 30%.
Although I think with a bit of training anyone could easily reach the 50% mark.
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Well, 30% with a keyboard is quite good IMO. That's what I achieved with my joystick...
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I've got a decent joystick but I'm complete crap with it! I just don't know why. I feel that it's not precise, especially diagonal directions.
=> I strongly advise you to use Nuke's mouse control. Basically it acts as a joystick (i.e., u don't need to keep moving the mouse).
I'm reaaaally better with it. To give u a figure, I achieved something like 30% of primary accuracy with the joystick. With the mouse I have 65% and more! On top of that, Nuke's mouse control gives u total freedom for your other hand (no silly joke intended :rolleyes:).
ps: I've not been paid by Nuke to advertise his mouse code! :lol:
Where is said mouse control?
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Here:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,44634.0.html
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Thx :)
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Am I the only one here who thinks that using joystick is much more easier than using mouse and keyboard? :nervous:
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Once you master one, they're all good, however, you will get certain bonuses in particular skills depending on which one you go with.
Joystick - Master at turning.
Keyboard - High response time for aiming and turning, but it's a jack of all trades, master of none.
Mouse - Master at aiming.
That is, providing you have the needed reflex skills to pull it off.
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Just went to check, my joystick accuracy is 45.1%, after playing through regular campaign on Normal and the revamped Derelict on Hard. I still prefer keyboard and mouse in most games (I play some shooters when I get time to mess about with video games) but when flying, joystick is the only way to go. I'm still using a Sidewinder Precision Pro from waaaaaay back, just found it in a box and I've been flying with it since, whenever I'm playing a sim.
Of course, I also go blast like crazy at cap ships with my Maxim cannon, so that might have something to do with upping my primary precision. I also don't like to hold down my fire button, cause then I can't see the reticle as well. =D Shiny blaster effects in SCP have their downsides, heh.
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overall stats with joy, mouse and kb. This is all on the original fs2 campaign. all primary fire no secondaries (missles, bombs).
Joystick - 68% acc. 226 kills. (could of been better but meh)
Mouse - 6% acc. 40 kills. (absoutly **** at mouse presision)
keyboard - 82% acc. 501 kills. (normal 70%+ accuracy)
and this is just easy skill, imagine trying insane with this sort accuracy to account for. My usual at kb on insane is around 40%, so work the figures out for yourself.
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Err, I was talking about EXPERIENCE, not a breakdown of technical details.
You can save your shots all you want and then hit the enemy once, while two of his cronies blast you to hell. Woo 100% accuracy. It means absolutely nothing.
Also, the most likely thing is that you can probably be only really good at one of them, because of the sheer amount of training you need to favor a style.
I started out with the keyboard (it's all I knew), and was semi-good with it, but that was the maximum I could output in terms of skill. Since I knew I sucked, I bought a joystick. When I started, I was even worse at that obviously. It's like trying to learn violin after all you've been playing is the piano.
Eventually though, time after time, I befriended the joystick and surpassed any keyboard skills I might've had by miles.
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Err, I was talking about EXPERIENCE, not a breakdown of technical details.
You can save your shots all you want and then hit the enemy once, while two of his cronies blast you to hell. Woo 100% accuracy. It means absolutely nothing.
errrmm, excuse me but was i ASKING for your backward opinion?
accuracy counts from EXPERIANCE, you can start in fs from new(i still remember when i first played fs) and it will be hard to get your head around the controls for the first few times. if you want techincal experience, here take this.
a keyboard is made of mostly plastic with a tiny circuitboard for the LED locks, on the outsode are the casing and the keys,on the inside there are plastic springs and a shiney plastic thin layer with metal inside for the certain keys, second layer is the same the 3 and 4 are all the same, the circuitboard connected the wire or box to the computer via a connector or reciver box.
THAT is techincal, what i said in my last post isnt.
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Blackdove has a point though. When I played with the mouse I could hit things very accurately, but I very rarely got an enemy in my sights, while with the joystick, my accuracy is lower, but I am usually on the tail of something or other and end up with more kills, just because I have had more firing opportunities.
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*snort* :lol: technical details! not! is too! zzzzzzzz
Here's an idea: You can use your mouse at the same time as the joystick, right? Put the mouse in your right (or left if ur a lefty) hand for accuracy, and use the joystick in the other hand while dogfighting... just remember, if you have to use the keyboard, prolly best to use the mouse hand to do it so that you keep turning. Anyone want to try that for a few hours and see if it works? (I don't have a joystick) I think, after a whiles of practice, you could outmatch any other combination of controls. (I use my keyboard turning controls + mouse)
PS oh, and I like my sensitivity settings on high; it takes a while to get used to, but it usually gives you an advantage, IMO.
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Err, I was talking about EXPERIENCE, not a breakdown of technical details.
You can save your shots all you want and then hit the enemy once, while two of his cronies blast you to hell. Woo 100% accuracy. It means absolutely nothing.
errrmm, excuse me but was i ASKING for your backward opinion?
You know you're already under a threat of a ban for responding like that, right?
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Here's an idea: You can use your mouse at the same time as the joystick, right? Put the mouse in your right (or left if ur a lefty) hand for accuracy, and use the joystick in the other hand while dogfighting... just remember, if you have to use the keyboard, prolly best to use the mouse hand to do it so that you keep turning. Anyone want to try that for a few hours and see if it works? (I don't have a joystick) I think, after a whiles of practice, you could outmatch any other combination of controls. (I use my keyboard turning controls + mouse)
PS oh, and I like my sensitivity settings on high; it takes a while to get used to, but it usually gives you an advantage, IMO.
It works. I have tried it. The only problem is to get used to joystick on left hand. But it works.
Anyway, with mouse it's best to use some rapid fire weapons such as Mekhu, Subach, Maxim and Tempests because you can sustain your aim and control the firing way better and keep the targeting reticle on lead indicator better than with joystick. Whereas with joystick I prefer to use Kaysers and Promethei, which have relatively low fire rate but pack more punch in one shot, so I use single fire or short bursts on them. That doesn't require keeping the enemy long in the reticle at time, it only takes good trigger timing. Good primary layout also helps a fair deal.
In overall, mouse is excellent in long to medium range, but in close quarters joystick is in overall better.
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Err, I was talking about EXPERIENCE, not a breakdown of technical details.
You can save your shots all you want and then hit the enemy once, while two of his cronies blast you to hell. Woo 100% accuracy. It means absolutely nothing.
errrmm, excuse me but was i ASKING for your backward opinion?
Nobody cares what you were asking for.
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You know you're already under a threat of a ban for responding like that, right?
He was already warned, eh? Banz0red for two days then.
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He was already warned, eh? Banz0red for two days then.
:nod: :yes:
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uh oh, strike two...
Anyway, Joysticks aren't too difficult. From my experience, a lot of them are different in they way they handle, so you need to be playing on them for a while to get fluent with them. Also, you need to have the keys bound just right, otherwise many things will be difficult. What good is the countermeasure button when it's on the opposite side as the afterburner button? Very little. Also, with some of the joysticks that have +10 buttons, it might get a bit difficult to remember the functions. Like other fun stuff, you start out sucking, and you have to work it to get really going.
EDIT: woops, I mean you start out doing badly, and you need to practice to get better. :nervous:
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I found the former description much more vivid and truer to the reality of other functions. :yes:
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Joystick + Perseus = No more hits on your ship. Ever.
I personally like the feel of the joystick and the atmosphere it creates. Especially the maneuverability is better than with the keyboard mouse, or at least with me, and I've been using joysticks for some time. I had so much fun with my ex-MS SW FF 2 (Please don't make me spell it out..), as it had settings for FS 2. Every time a supercapital ship shockwave hit me, wheeeee, there goes my hand! But the truth is, something what you're not used to is hard. And with something you master, it's a different story.
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I also think that a joystick adds "atmosphere" to FS.
Even if I have on my joystick only the "Fire primary" and "Fire secondary" button, out of 12 available buttons :nervous:
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yep 220 odd kills with a joystick is good, i like to get dizzy with a joystick sometimes :pimp:.
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I keep the stick on my lap and the mouse on my desk on the right. So I dogfight with the stick but when I have a bogey in my sights I switch quickly over to the mouse :)
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lol i wasnt thinking like that unknown target!
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See, I find it impossible to use the mouse or keyboard when playing. An analog joystick gives me far better control for both attack and evasive. If I could spare the funds right now, I'd have a Saitek X-52 so that all my needed controls would be on my stick and throttle, but for now I have to use my old Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro.
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Saitek X-52 is a piece of **** for this game.
You have arguably one of the best joysticks (3rd or 4th) to utilize.
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How is it bad to have ALL my controls on one device? Well, except the jump out. That could get embarrassing. I'm tired of having to take my hands off the stick to hit keyboard controls. My Thrustmaster Top Gun Afterburner II was better, even though no force feedback, because it had more controls. Unfortunately it's on the other side of the country from me right now.
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Oh no, the controls are great once you bind them all correctly. It's probably a great joystick for joy riding and immersion.
However if you're trying to fly to the best of your abilities, that huge throttle will cut them down pretty fast, especially as the fight drags out.
Only the people with the highest mastery of FS2 will understand what I'm talking about though.
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Doesn't the Saitek X-52 have 2 joysticks?
(http://www.saitekusa.com/USA/images/product/pcp/x52.jpg)
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No, the smaller one is throttle lever, which is rather useless in FS2 anyway given that most of the time you are either matching speed with something or flying as fast as you can, or staying still at zero speed. Analog throttle/speed control is not really very useful in games like FS2 IMHO. It gets important in more complex physically accurate flight sims where you actually need many analog axes to map to controls, throttle, propeller pitch, flaps and fuel mixture. I personally nearly never actually use the throttle, I just hit full throttle, zero throttle, match speed or afterburners.
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See, this is exactly something the average player would say.
Though that's not all that bad, at least you're using those four. I've seen people use... less... -_-
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I use one of dem. I currently have an 80% primary accuracy with it. :D
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Am I the only one here who thinks that using joystick is much more easier than using mouse and keyboard? :nervous:
I actually found out about FreeSpace when the demo came with a new joystick. Ive tried keyboard and mouse but i place emphasis on the realism of the experience rather than how well i play with it... I play better with the joystick anyway, but then again thats what I'm experienced with.
And BTW, the title made me giggle. ;7
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And BTW, the title made me giggle. ;7
Get your head out of the gutter, you. :rolleyes:
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See, this is exactly something the average player would say.
Though that's not all that bad, at least you're using those four. I've seen people use... less... -_-
I use full throttle, zero, and I use Z to decelerate to anything in between :D
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I just use my joystick's built-in throttle and fly at whatever speed I damn well please. The only place I used Match Speed was in the training mission that required it. :p
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I just use my joystick's built-in throttle and fly at whatever speed I damn well please. The only place I used Match Speed was in the training mission that required it. :p
Hell yes. :yes:
I use my throttle constantly. Like if a Shivan fighter is going straight at me and turns up at the last second, I can quickly slow down and then slam the stick forward and hit my afterburners to get my original speed back. It saved my ass from a missile too. :D
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I just use my joystick's built-in throttle and fly at whatever speed I damn well please. The only place I used Match Speed was in the training mission that required it. :p
Hell yes. :yes:
I use my throttle constantly. Like if a Shivan fighter is going straight at me and turns up at the last second, I can quickly slow down and then slam the stick forward and hit my afterburners to get my original speed back. It saved my ass from a missile too. :D
same here :p
I hate match speed, because it never works properly for me. It always goes about 3 or 4 m/s slower than the other guy no matter what.
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After ~50 hours of Freespacin' with a mouse/keyboard combo, I finally picked up a halfways decent joystick. I must be REALLY out of practice because I can aim for crap with this thing. I need inspiring, uplifting anecdotes from people telling me how awesome the joystick is to control your ship once you get the hang of it.
P.S. I know there's already a thread on this but I got an angry red message on top saying no one had posted to it for 30 days and maybe I should just make a new one :nervous:
Joysticks, unlike the mouse, take more time to learn and become accustomed to the movement of the stick in question. I play flight sims and the switch from a Microsoft Precision Pro 2 to a Saitek X-52 was huge...and my flying abilities were completely destroyed. Took a month to rebuild them. Thats between sticks. So give it time man.
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Heh i only have the match-speed problem when matching with big ships.
I prefer the joystick. I have a Logitech WingMan Force 3D. Just enough buttons for all the stuff i wanna do.
It's a cool stick. Let's see... trigger is primary, left button is secondary, upper left is CM, right button is target attacker, upper right is target escorts, 4-way HAT is normal look-around, on the base, the throttle is set to absolute, the far button is equalize shields, the close button is afterburner (not sure about those two... I dont remember--i use both at the same time).
The point of a joystick is ease of use; most buttons you need are all close. The throttle makes a bit of a differance-flying at full speed, no speed, or anything in-between is easy. You map the buttons so you are comfortable; there are no "offical" setups... most people get a joystick and customize it and use the same config on all games they play.
Anyways... I got my joystick a few years back, Freespace Colossus with it (OEM version). The best I can say is get an uber-cheap joystick and have-at-it. If you get comfortable with the stick, you're set for all other games that are similar. It's particularly easy if you get a different game and play with the joystick.
There are some things to consider... will you use all the features? Do you want force-feedback? How much are you willing to spend?
I personally have the perfect thing with my stick... it has force-feedback and I got it for nothing from my Uncle a few summers past.
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Just got this Saitek X-45 off eBay:
(http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/images/product/pcp/x45.jpg)
@BlackDove: I see your point. Dumb thing is too big. And this is my first joystick, but I sensed that right off the bat. It's not that it has too many controls, it just it not ergonomically shaped. (With my hand comfortable, the buttons are not in reach.) Darn. :p
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I use full throttle, zero, and I use Z to decelerate to anything in between :D
Same here. 90% of the time you can get along spending just one key for throttle control, which is nice :)
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I use full throttle, zero, and I use Z to decelerate to anything in between :D
Same here. 90% of the time you can get along spending just one key for throttle control, which is nice :)
eh, I use Match speed, and TAB or A to accelerate past that. I don't often use Z, but sometimes I do if I'm trying to get a Shivver off of my tail...
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eh, I use Match speed, and TAB or A to accelerate past that. I don't often use Z, but sometimes I do if I'm trying to get a Shivver off of my tail...
Thats what afterburners are for :nod:
Anyway, I used to prefer the joystick over all else. In fact, losing my old one is what's kept me from playing FS, up until I found out about this place. Although that was before I knew you could USE a mouse...
I just wish you could use the mousewheel for throttle.
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eh, I use Match speed, and TAB or A to accelerate past that. I don't often use Z, but sometimes I do if I'm trying to get a Shivver off of my tail...
I'm sure that works too :)
Personally, I find it useful to try and keep the speed at max for better missile evasion, and only slow down if I really need to.
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Actually using lowspeeds will help missile evasion when you're dead-out of CM's...
The idea is your speed range is great. The missile hones in on you, you setup to hit one blast of the afterburner for less then a second. The missile will fly right by if you're at a good angle. No CM's involved...
I was playing a mission I made lately and I had 8 ships on my tail... no CM's... no missiles... all about the primary banks... oh and it was a Myrmidon, too! :lol:
Still, you can survive. I used 16 support ships/decoys and waited for the planned support (which I foolishly set to be 90% of the enemy wings destroyed; about 12 fighters I would have to fight, of which 10 would have to be destroyed). I survived losing about 30% hull. Dual-fire mode with PromR on first bank and Subach on second bank. It took a long time to wear down the shields while dodging missiles and Mentu shots and whatnot. Eventually reinforcements came... after I took down so many ships I didn't play again until today.
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Ehhh.....
It's possible to evade all missiles forever without using a single CM. Doesn't require "good angles" or "good chances" either.
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I like having a throttle. I hate "Match speed" and only use it in a training mission when it asks me to as a directive. I like a bigger throttle lever because I get more precision out of it. Also, I think I'd do just fine with a Saitek stick, but I have pretty good sized hands, too. I could be wrong. Can't really tell without one to test with.
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If you don't mind looking weird... go to a compusa and look at the joystick/throttle combos. I want to get their thrustmaster combo... ;7
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Ehhh.....
It's possible to evade all missiles forever without using a single CM. Doesn't require "good angles" or "good chances" either.
Would that mean a requirement of having engines that can push your ship faster than the missiles?
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Any ship.
Even the Osiris I think.
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:confused: ok, stop being so secretive... explain!
please? :D
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I would have to show you. This is where the genius shines of how the radar was made to function in the game.
Ask me when 3.6.10 hits. We used to teach this to people who rolled onto PXO and didn't know how to play past the singleplayer/didn't have much experience with multi in general.
I would assume there's others who know how to do this who could show you as well (or explain it in a way that I can't), but surprisingly, back in the PXO days, even where there were droves of people abound, only the specific "hardcore" group knew this down to a science (among other things obviously), while many others (read:everyone else) didn't.
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I find sight is very necessary to dodge missiles; if you can look at it and hit your burners, the missile will fly by.
Anyways I find the throttle the most important part of my joystick; to be able to quickly change speeds in a dogfight is necessary. Drop from full to 0 to afterburner and back again... you make it sporadic.